Why are Paleolithic survivors in North West Europe more pale than Alpines?

[Oliver109]

Alpines tend to a more ruddy yellow-white complexion though still light compared to Meds, Brunns and Borrebies can both be very very fair as are paleo atlantids. Climate isn't really a convincing answer, the alpines of Britanny are as dark as alpines who live in southern France and Turkey.

[Oliver109]

up pls

[Beowulf]

they should be more north shifted and have more Nordic like ancestry

[Immanenz]

Paleness itself has nothing to do with "Up Survivors" its not a condition a person has to have to be one.

"Why" a group of people is lighter than others is not easy to answer but you asked similar questions already and people gave their opinions on it. So even if all WHG or EHG people (Up survivor is a much looser term- a broad nosed, borad cheeked Philipino can be an East Asian Upper Paleolithic survivor) were light- the question "why" is still dubious, but being light became at one point a very important quality (for some group of people), just looking at the threads here its mostly about who is lighter etc. So phenotypes have a strong psychological component rather than just biological.

[Oliver109]

Paleness itself has nothing to do with "Up Survivors" its not a condition a person has to have to be one.

"Why" a group of people is lighter than others is not easy to answer but you asked similar questions already and people gave their opinions on it. So even if all WHG or EHG people (Up survivor is a much looser term- a broad nosed, borad cheeked Philipino can be an East Asian Upper Paleolithic survivor) were light- the question "why" is still dubious, but being light became at one point a very important quality (for some group of people), just looking at the threads here its mostly about who is lighter etc. So phenotypes have a strong psychological component rather than just biological.

Areas with UP survivors are all areas that have higher incidences of light skin, Nordics being an exception. Yes there are light Meds but they always exist in areas where UP types also exist i.e Spain, Kurdistan, Pakistan, Morocco. very few light Meds can be found in Yemen or in most of Egypt so it goes without saying that Meds always tend to a more beige skin colour at it's lightest. Alpine regions are historically lighter in skintone than Med regions i.e Tajikistan, Caucasus, Turkey, Northern Italy so there is a light gene predominant wherever the most typical alpine charectaristics are found. unreduced Cro Magnids also are lighter whether they are found in Morocco, Iran or Belgium. Some Native Americans do resemble Cro Magnids very closely though those resemblances are just convergent from a common ancestor, in other aspects N Americans are clearly of Mongoloid inspiration i.e hairlessness, pitch black hair and eyes etc.

[Immanenz]

Areas with UP survivors are all areas that have higher incidences of light skin, Nordics being an exception. Yes there are light Meds but they always exist in areas where UP types also exist i.e Spain, Kurdistan, Pakistan, Morocco. very few light Meds can be found in Yemen or in most of Egypt so it goes without saying that Meds always tend to a more beige skin colour at it's lightest. Alpine regions are historically lighter in skintone than Med regions i.e Tajikistan, Caucasus, Turkey, Northern Italy so there is a light gene predominant wherever the most typical alpine charectaristics are found. unreduced Cro Magnids also are lighter whether they are found in Morocco, Iran or Belgium. Some Native Americans do resemble Cro Magnids very closely though those resemblances are just convergent from a common ancestor, in other aspects N Americans are clearly of Mongoloid inspiration i.e hairlessness, pitch black hair and eyes etc.

No, Cro Magnon metrics do not necessary have something to do with light hair or skin and you do not answer your question "why" (they are because they are is not an argument). EHG were very likely lighter haired than WHG for example, but denying a selective component, would be again foolish.
people moved and mixed for such a long time- while you need for phenotypes a period of isolation for specialization. Most of those so called "basic phenotypes" are more fluent rather than some strict schemata- the historical approach to it certainly teaches that.

[Oliver109]

No, Cro Magnon metrics do not necessary have something to do with light hair or skin and you do not answer your question "why" (they are because they are is not an argument). EHG were very likely lighter than WHG for example, but denying a selective component, would be again foolish.
people moved and mixed for such a long time- while you need for phenotypes a period of isolation for specialization. Most of those so called "basic phenotypes" are more fluent rather than some strict schemata- the historical approach to it certainly teaches that.

Light skin is more abundant in areas with a high Paleolithic survivor population i.e Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Finland so i think that the original UP survivors must have been light skinned. EHG were probably lighter skinned i agree but remember Coon said that the original UP populations must have been very light skinned, they all share a tendency for red or reddish hair and freckling. Of course you have populations with Med metrics that are light skinned but as i said before they always exist in an area with a CM group present.

[Immanenz]

Light skin is more abundant in areas with a high Paleolithic survivor population i.e Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Finland so i think that the original UP survivors must have been light skinned. EHG were probably lighter skinned i agree but remember Coon said that the original UP populations must have been very light skinned, they all share a tendency for red or reddish hair and freckling. Of course you have populations with Med metrics that are light skinned but as i said before they always exist in an area with a CM group present.

This was his speculations or observations at best precisly. But again its the same mistake- you judge the now in order to make conclusion for the past- this is only to some degree possible with phenotypes. Its obv. Coon would adjust to genetics if he would have the knowldge we have now.

[Oliver109]

This was his speculations or observations at best precisly. But again its the same mistake- you judge the now in order to make conclusion for the past- this is only to some degree possible with phenotypes. Its obv. Coon would adjust to genetics if he would have the knowldge we have now.

Genetics don't explain phenotypical re emergences as much, for example the UP type has re emerged in Ireland thanks to sexual selection etc but the base genetics wouldn't show that, genetics explain the origins of a population(which to many extents match what Coon spoke about) but they don't explain phenotype occurrences. also as far as i am aware there are many different genes for skin colour so it is hard to really see what historic populations looked like.

[Oliver109]

It's like in Africa you have certain phenotypes associated with certain skin colours i.e Nilotic people like the Dinka always have very black skin, you wouldn't see such people with lighter skin, quite astonishing when you consider how many lighter skinned populations live nearby.