Should Ireland cease to speak English and rise the Gaellic or whatever their original language?

[Sharpshooter]

What I've stated is based on people who were born and raised in Ireland. I've worked with a number of Irish and Scots.

These are actual Irish people and not mixed ethnic people (like yourself and Creoda) who want to think everything is lovely between them and the Brits. Is the Rangers and Celtic rivalry not based on ethnic rivalry? Yes, it is. These Irish-Scots have been living in Scotland for generations but yet still maintain their ethnic consciousness.

Be mad at the actual Irishmen I've known (and Irish-Scots woman). You're mixed and so your opinion means little.

Well as someone who is fully ethnically Irish (British born and raised to two Irish parents) I think I know a bit about this.

Here are some stats with regards to Irish ancestry in Britain:

Around 6million, i.e. 1 in 10 Britons, have an Irish grandparent (i.e. 25% or greater Irish heritage)

Around 1 in 4 Britons have at least one Irish ancestor.

You're not wrong with regards to Irish in pockets of Glasgow, some haven't integrated very well there and there continues issues regarding sectarianism there, but having said that you are being somewhat selective about this. For the fact that 1 in 10 can get an Irish passport and 1 in 4 have ANY Irish ancestry whatsoever means the Irish have, by and large, integrated into British society overall, their ethnicity has become of the modern day British ethnic fabric (whether hardcore Irish nationalists and English nationalists want to be admit it or not).

There are 2 million second generation Irish in Britain (i.e. at least one Irish parent) and of this approximately 500,000 have two Irish parents (like me). According to the 2011 census, only 50,000 second generation born in Britain ticked Irish as their national identity, which means the other 450,000 (i.e. 90%) ticked their nationality as British. Nearly 80% of people with two Irish parents ticked their ethnicity as "White British" (not "White Irish").

Irish surnames are disproportionally high in the British armed forces, since the British army tends to attract the working class and Irish flooded the urban areas of Britain, some of the Soldiers even in Bloody Sunday were directly of Irish ancestry themselves. We've already had a Prime Minister with an Irish surname (Jim Callaghan).

No one is saying English and Irish people are the same, obviously they're not, but I think its important not to exaggerate the differences between English and Irish, a lot of people do this for political purposes, somehow suggesting that the Irish are distinct ethnicity within Britain that hasn't integrated and kept to themselves, when as I've showed you, the Irish have been marrying into mainstream Britain for centuries.

[Mingle]

This selection of a period 700 or so years ago as the defining identity of a particular (Celtic) nation is a strange obsession by New Worlders, particularly in the United States

Watch the 6 Nations rugby if you want to look at what the rivalry is really all about. Opponents in the game then share beers and laughs afterwards.

Many New Worlders have no clue, and want to encourage this divisive rhetoric over centuries old battles because their great great etc grandparent was called McCulloch.

No. 🤡

I love how people always try to shift blame on "diasporoids" to make it seem like everything is all fine and rosy back home and these "troublesome outsiders" are the ones always causing commotion. There's plenty of Irish folk that you see hating on the Brits even today (not saying they're the majority). Just go to any website where these types of discussion are a thing. And you'll always see Irish and Scots straight from Ireland and Scotland talking badly about the English or the UK rather than Americans.

By the way, not every Irish-American (or Western European-American) is a deracinated White American. Many of them still visit their home country and keep ties.

Regarding the rest of what you wrote, I won't say it's wrong. But don't act like any feelings of discontent you see online between the two countries are just cause of Americans. Most Americans don't care to learn about such stuff, and identification with those ethnicities is quite weak unless the ancestry was very recent.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Well as someone who is fully ethnically Irish (British born and raised to two Irish parents) I think I know a bit about this.

Here are some stats with regards to Irish ancestry in Britain:

Around 6million, i.e. 1 in 10 Britons, have an Irish grandparent (i.e. 25% or greater Irish heritage)

Around 1 in 4 Britons have at least one Irish ancestor.

You're not wrong with regards to Irish in pockets of Glasgow, some haven't integrated very well there and there continues issues regarding sectarianism there, but having said that you are being somewhat selective about this. For the fact that 1 in 10 can get an Irish passport and 1 in 4 have ANY Irish ancestry whatsoever means the Irish have, by and large, integrated into British society overall, their ethnicity has become of the modern day British ethnic fabric (whether hardcore Irish nationalists and English nationalists want to be admit it or not).

There are 2 million second generation Irish in Britain (i.e. at least one Irish parent) and of this approximately 500,000 have two Irish parents (like me). According to the 2011 census, only 50,000 second generation born in Britain ticked Irish as their national identity, which means the other 450,000 (i.e. 90%) ticked their nationality as British. Nearly 80% of people with two Irish parents ticked their ethnicity as "White British" (not "White Irish").

Irish surnames are disproportionally high in the British armed forces, since the British army tends to attract the working class and Irish flooded the urban areas of Britain, some of the Soldiers even in Bloody Sunday were directly of Irish ancestry themselves. We've already had a Prime Minister with an Irish surname (Jim Callaghan).

No one is saying English and Irish people are the same, obviously they're not, but I think its important not to exaggerate the differences between English and Irish, a lot of people do this for political purposes, somehow suggesting that the Irish are distinct ethnicity within Britain that hasn't integrated and kept to themselves, when as I've showed you, the Irish have been marrying into mainstream Britain for centuries.

No offence but you're not an actual Irishman. You were raised in the UK. I'm speaking of someone born and raised in Ireland when I say Irishman.

However, good post. Although I already knew all of that but it's good to see the actual numbers.

Edit: I just looked at your profile. Can you expand on your background?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Well as someone who is fully ethnically Irish (British born and raised to two Irish parents) I think I know a bit about this.

Here are some stats with regards to Irish ancestry in Britain:

Around 6million, i.e. 1 in 10 Britons, have an Irish grandparent (i.e. 25% or greater Irish heritage)

Around 1 in 4 Britons have at least one Irish ancestor.

You're not wrong with regards to Irish in pockets of Glasgow, some haven't integrated very well there and there continues issues regarding sectarianism there, but having said that you are being somewhat selective about this. For the fact that 1 in 10 can get an Irish passport and 1 in 4 have ANY Irish ancestry whatsoever means the Irish have, by and large, integrated into British society overall, their ethnicity has become of the modern day British ethnic fabric (whether hardcore Irish nationalists and English nationalists want to be admit it or not).

There are 2 million second generation Irish in Britain (i.e. at least one Irish parent) and of this approximately 500,000 have two Irish parents (like me). According to the 2011 census, only 50,000 second generation born in Britain ticked Irish as their national identity, which means the other 450,000 (i.e. 90%) ticked their nationality as British. Nearly 80% of people with two Irish parents ticked their ethnicity as "White British" (not "White Irish").

Irish surnames are disproportionally high in the British armed forces, since the British army tends to attract the working class and Irish flooded the urban areas of Britain, some of the Soldiers even in Bloody Sunday were directly of Irish ancestry themselves. We've already had a Prime Minister with an Irish surname (Jim Callaghan).

No one is saying English and Irish people are the same, obviously they're not, but I think its important not to exaggerate the differences between English and Irish, a lot of people do this for political purposes, somehow suggesting that the Irish are distinct ethnicity within Britain that hasn't integrated and kept to themselves, when as I've showed you, the Irish have been marrying into mainstream Britain for centuries.

I'm quoting your post again because you may not have seen the edit to my previous post.

I see you're in Northern Ireland. Can you tell me more about your background? Are both sides of your family ethnic Irish (in contrast to Scots-Irish or Anglo-Irish?) You do say in your previous post both sides are ethnic Irish but I just want to make sure we define it the same way.

[Grace O'Malley]

Kind of a generalisation don't you think? I mean a larger percentage of British than Irish can speak French (and Spanish). And probably a larger percentage of British than Irish go to France on holiday. With the waning of Catholicism I don't think the Irish have much in common with the Spanish/French at all.

I'm just saying there isn't the baggage in Ireland towards the French. I never said they have a lot in common just that there isn't the bad history. In fact Irish and French interactions have been positive and Ireland is having more interactions with France these days. They are an observer country of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie which many other European countries are. French is also the no 1 foreign language that Irish learn. There is also some historical links between Ireland and France with even one of the French President being of Irish descent.

The British media can be very derogatory towards the French. I'm sure many English like the French but Britain and France do have a bit of a chequered history.

You can add any disagreements with the above.

[Grace O'Malley]

Anyone who denies how central it is to the Irish identity to be anti-British is not being honest.

I'm being honest and most Irish are not anti-British. Many Irish live in the UK and have been doing that for generations now. Most Irish will of course get annoyed with what happened in the past but Irish now are not anti-British at all. Nearly every Irish person has family in England. That is not an exaggeration either. I have cousins who are half English. Some have even went to live in Ireland even though they were born and raised in England with an English parent. My other cousins have remained in England all their lives but of course visited Ireland many times. It's a very entwined history. My father was actually in the RAF and still a very traditional Irishman who hoped that Ireland would be united one day but he said the Englishmen he served with were very decent and he never had any problems with them. In fact the relationship between Irish and British these days is very good and people do not harbour those old hatreds.

[Monapps]

Well as someone who is fully ethnically Irish (British born and raised to two Irish parents) I think I know a bit about this.

Here are some stats with regards to Irish ancestry in Britain:

Around 6million, i.e. 1 in 10 Britons, have an Irish grandparent (i.e. 25% or greater Irish heritage)

Around 1 in 4 Britons have at least one Irish ancestor.

You're not wrong with regards to Irish in pockets of Glasgow, some haven't integrated very well there and there continues issues regarding sectarianism there, but having said that you are being somewhat selective about this. For the fact that 1 in 10 can get an Irish passport and 1 in 4 have ANY Irish ancestry whatsoever means the Irish have, by and large, integrated into British society overall, their ethnicity has become of the modern day British ethnic fabric (whether hardcore Irish nationalists and English nationalists want to be admit it or not).

There are 2 million second generation Irish in Britain (i.e. at least one Irish parent) and of this approximately 500,000 have two Irish parents (like me). According to the 2011 census, only 50,000 second generation born in Britain ticked Irish as their national identity, which means the other 450,000 (i.e. 90%) ticked their nationality as British. Nearly 80% of people with two Irish parents ticked their ethnicity as "White British" (not "White Irish").

Irish surnames are disproportionally high in the British armed forces, since the British army tends to attract the working class and Irish flooded the urban areas of Britain, some of the Soldiers even in Bloody Sunday were directly of Irish ancestry themselves. We've already had a Prime Minister with an Irish surname (Jim Callaghan).

No one is saying English and Irish people are the same, obviously they're not, but I think its important not to exaggerate the differences between English and Irish, a lot of people do this for political purposes, somehow suggesting that the Irish are distinct ethnicity within Britain that hasn't integrated and kept to themselves, when as I've showed you, the Irish have been marrying into mainstream Britain for centuries.

I wonder if you'd accept the same argument coming from let's say Jamaicans. They speak English and are historically related to the UK, where they are a well-established and assimilated community and intermarriage with British natives is very high.

[Grace O'Malley]

I wonder if you'd accept the same argument coming from let's say Jamaicans. They speak English and are historically related to the UK, where they are a well-established and assimilated community and intermarriage with British natives is very high.

Well in Ireland a half-English half-Irish person brought up in Ireland would be accepted as Irish no problems. Someone like Phil Lynott was completely accepted as Irish and he was half Afro-Brazilian.

Also there are so many half Irish half English. Do you think Kate Bush or Billy Idol had any problems being accepted as English? Or someone like Claire Foy?

[Creoda]

I'm just saying there isn't the baggage in Ireland towards the French. I never said they have a lot in common just that there isn't the bad history. In fact Irish and French interactions have been positive and Ireland is having more interactions with France these days. They are an observer country of the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie which many other European countries are. French is also the no 1 foreign language that Irish learn. There is also some historical links between Ireland and France with even one of the French President being of Irish descent.

The British media can be very derogatory towards the French. I'm sure many English like the French but Britain and France do have a bit of a chequered history.

You can add any disagreements with the above.

I wasn't claiming the British like the French or anything like that, was just an example. Just not a huge fan of such generalised statements like 'the Irish like the French and Spanish', like they all do or have some particular affinity towards them more than other peoples, I don't see it. When it comes to likes/hates etc I think people should speak only for themselves.

[Grace O'Malley]

I wasn't claiming the British like the French or anything like that, was just an example. Just not a huge fan of such generalised statements like 'the Irish like the French and Spanish', like they all do or have some particular affinity towards them more than other peoples, I don't see it. When it comes to likes/hates etc I think people should speak only for themselves.

I understand your point about talking in a collective sense. My point was that the Irish have no baggage with French and Spanish people and generally have a favourable opinion about those countries. The relationship with Britain is more complicated because of the history. I think the Irish have a much stronger affinity with the Americans over any European population other than the British but that is due to the strong links between those populations.