Genetic identification of Slavs in Migration Period Europe using an IBD sharing graph

[Peterski]

Here also Danish and Dutch come before Swedish, which is the only Scandinavian (Scandinavian Peninsula) reference visible.

Denmark is considered part of Scandinavia as well:

http://www.geographicguide.net/europ...inavia-map.htm

[rothaer]

Denmark is considered part of Scandinavia as well:

http://www.geographicguide.net/europ...inavia-map.htm

According to that map the biggest Danish island Zealand is also Swedish. Scandinavia is a gerographic term that can not seriously be dependent on the shifting many times political southern border of Denmark. I admit that the current usage in English is that fuzzy (and imo wrongly).

[Peterski]

Btw. do you now have more Germanic than me?

Less of West Germanic but probably more of East Germanic.

As for your modelling it does not imply that combination to be true.

When using only ancient samples, I get the same result:

Target: Peterski_scaled
Distance: 2.6188% / 0.02618819
55.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
44.8 POL_Weklice

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:

POL_Weklice:R10618,0.138864,0.137096,0.072784,0.06137,0.041546,0.0251,0.003525,0.008538,0.007772,-0.005103,-0.002273,-0.004046,-0.011298,-0.010597,0.018458,0.024264,0.017471,0.003421,0.005279,0.014007,0.000624,0.003462,-0.003328,0.01699,-0.003832
POL_Weklice:R10620,0.129758,0.126941,0.069767,0.052972,0.037545,0.013387,0.00329,0.004846,-0.003886,-0.013485,0,0.004196,-0.004906,-0.004266,0.016422,0.006762,0.005346,-0.00152,-0.002263,-0.004127,0.010107,0.003339,0.004683,0.024702,-0.002036
POL_Weklice:R10625,0.129758,0.125926,0.079572,0.07429,0.048317,0.019522,0.00846,0.01823,0.015748,-0.009476,-0.008282,0.004646,-0.004162,-0.003991,0.008686,0.016839,0.022556,0.003421,0.004399,0.006628,0.017594,0.011623,-0.002095,-0.001205,0.001078
POL_Weklice:R10626,0.134311,0.127957,0.07203,0.055879,0.041854,0.023148,0.013161,0.017076,-0.000818,-0.004009,-0.004384,0.012139,-0.00996,0.001239,0.025108,0.000928,-0.008345,0.002407,-0.001634,0.006628,0.004118,0.00136,-0.006902,0.018436,-0.003712
POL_Weklice:R10631,0.129758,0.131003,0.080327,0.063308,0.0397,0.023985,0.00188,0.005077,0.006749,-0.011299,-0.008769,0.001199,-0.006541,-0.013074,0.020358,0.005171,-0.00678,0.000507,-0.006536,0.005378,0.009608,-0.000866,-0.006039,0.008555,-0.001557
POL_Weklice:R10633,0.136588,0.129988,0.07731,0.070737,0.050471,0.024821,0.00423,0.011769,0.01309,-0.00492,-0.005034,0.005995,-0.009663,-0.010872,0.019272,0.025192,0.010822,-0.004054,-0.001508,0.009755,0.019341,0.001113,0.002095,0.002289,0.002036
POL_Weklice:R10634,0.133173,0.136081,0.071276,0.067507,0.041546,0.023706,0.003995,0.015461,0.005931,-0.008018,-0.009906,0.004046,-0.008028,-0.006055,0.021851,0.002652,-0.00665,-0.00228,0.004777,0.001,0.004243,-0.003462,0.00419,0.013255,-0.005389
POL_Weklice:R10636,0.133173,0.118817,0.080704,0.068153,0.038161,0.029005,0.003525,0.006692,0.003681,-0.011481,-0.008607,0.003297,-0.001933,-0.002202,0.016015,0.008353,-0.002608,0.001394,0.008045,0.001751,0.000374,0.003957,0.001479,0.025064,0.001197
POL_Weklice:R11391,0.127482,0.132019,0.065996,0.057171,0.044316,0.032072,0.015746,0.010846,-0.003886,-0.016037,-0.003735,0.015886,-0.016204,0.006193,0.023887,0.000398,-0.028163,-0.001647,0.004651,-0.001251,0.017095,0.009027,0.003081,0.012893,0.002634
HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389

TARGET:

Peterski_scaled,0.133173,0.140143,0.065619,0.058463,0.033852,0.022869,0.006815,0.009923,0.000409,-0.018041,-0.003897,-0.001798,0.010109,0.00867,-0.007465,-0.000133,0.002999,0.0019,-0.00088,-0.001251,-0.009982,-0.000742,0.006409,0.006145,-0.002874

[rothaer]

Less of West Germanic but probably more of East Germanic.



When using only ancient samples, I get the same result:

Target: Peterski_scaled
Distance: 2.6188% / 0.02618819
55.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
44.8 POL_Weklice

https://vahaduo.github.io/vahaduo/

SOURCE:

POL_Weklice:R10618,0.138864,0.137096,0.072784,0.06137,0.041546,0.0251,0.003525,0.008538,0.007772,-0.005103,-0.002273,-0.004046,-0.011298,-0.010597,0.018458,0.024264,0.017471,0.003421,0.005279,0.014007,0.000624,0.003462,-0.003328,0.01699,-0.003832
POL_Weklice:R10620,0.129758,0.126941,0.069767,0.052972,0.037545,0.013387,0.00329,0.004846,-0.003886,-0.013485,0,0.004196,-0.004906,-0.004266,0.016422,0.006762,0.005346,-0.00152,-0.002263,-0.004127,0.010107,0.003339,0.004683,0.024702,-0.002036
POL_Weklice:R10625,0.129758,0.125926,0.079572,0.07429,0.048317,0.019522,0.00846,0.01823,0.015748,-0.009476,-0.008282,0.004646,-0.004162,-0.003991,0.008686,0.016839,0.022556,0.003421,0.004399,0.006628,0.017594,0.011623,-0.002095,-0.001205,0.001078
POL_Weklice:R10626,0.134311,0.127957,0.07203,0.055879,0.041854,0.023148,0.013161,0.017076,-0.000818,-0.004009,-0.004384,0.012139,-0.00996,0.001239,0.025108,0.000928,-0.008345,0.002407,-0.001634,0.006628,0.004118,0.00136,-0.006902,0.018436,-0.003712
POL_Weklice:R10631,0.129758,0.131003,0.080327,0.063308,0.0397,0.023985,0.00188,0.005077,0.006749,-0.011299,-0.008769,0.001199,-0.006541,-0.013074,0.020358,0.005171,-0.00678,0.000507,-0.006536,0.005378,0.009608,-0.000866,-0.006039,0.008555,-0.001557
POL_Weklice:R10633,0.136588,0.129988,0.07731,0.070737,0.050471,0.024821,0.00423,0.011769,0.01309,-0.00492,-0.005034,0.005995,-0.009663,-0.010872,0.019272,0.025192,0.010822,-0.004054,-0.001508,0.009755,0.019341,0.001113,0.002095,0.002289,0.002036
POL_Weklice:R10634,0.133173,0.136081,0.071276,0.067507,0.041546,0.023706,0.003995,0.015461,0.005931,-0.008018,-0.009906,0.004046,-0.008028,-0.006055,0.021851,0.002652,-0.00665,-0.00228,0.004777,0.001,0.004243,-0.003462,0.00419,0.013255,-0.005389
POL_Weklice:R10636,0.133173,0.118817,0.080704,0.068153,0.038161,0.029005,0.003525,0.006692,0.003681,-0.011481,-0.008607,0.003297,-0.001933,-0.002202,0.016015,0.008353,-0.002608,0.001394,0.008045,0.001751,0.000374,0.003957,0.001479,0.025064,0.001197
POL_Weklice:R11391,0.127482,0.132019,0.065996,0.057171,0.044316,0.032072,0.015746,0.010846,-0.003886,-0.016037,-0.003735,0.015886,-0.016204,0.006193,0.023887,0.000398,-0.028163,-0.001647,0.004651,-0.001251,0.017095,0.009027,0.003081,0.012893,0.002634
HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389

TARGET:

Peterski_scaled,0.133173,0.140143,0.065619,0.058463,0.033852,0.022869,0.006815,0.009923,0.000409,-0.018041,-0.003897,-0.001798,0.010109,0.00867,-0.007465,-0.000133,0.002999,0.0019,-0.00088,-0.001251,-0.009982,-0.000742,0.006409,0.006145,-0.002874

You provide only Weklice as Germanic and do then conclude Eastern Germanicness from that?

That source seems pretty Germanic friendly:

Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 1.9238% / 0.01923798
64.8 POL_Weklice
35.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad

[Mingle]

According to that map the biggest Danish island Zealand is also Swedish. Scandinavia is a gerographic term that can not seriously be dependent on the shifting many times political southern border of Denmark. I admit that the current usage in English is that fuzzy (and imo wrongly).

Scandinavia is a cultural term that always includes all of Denmark.

The word you're looking for is Fennoscandia:
http://www.bodilelmhagen.se/fenno.html

Or Scandinavian Peninsula:
https://www.worldatlas.com/amp/penin...peninsula.html

[rothaer]

Scandinavia is a cultural term that always includes all of Denmark.

The word you're looking for is Fennoscandia:
http://www.bodilelmhagen.se/fenno.html

Or Scandinavian Peninsula:
https://www.worldatlas.com/amp/penin...peninsula.html

The latter. The geographical term Scandinavia equals the Scandinavian Peninsula.

A cultural term Scandinavia is secondary (derived), fuzzy and harms clarity. Like Europe when it is meant as a cultural (or even political) term and detached from the geographical term.

We do have the subject of geography for describing and naming various parts of the surface of the earth. Why refrain from using it when referring to geographical areas?

(I guess that the true reason is ignorance and lack of thoroughness regarding geographical terms by the main part of speakers and that claiming a not perfectly defined "cultural term" is nothing but an excuse for not expressing correctly. I'm not overlooking that eventually the masses will define what is a "correct" "cultural term". But I could just scream and flog'em all. )

[Peterski]

Below a map from this publication - locations of individuals from the Slavic IBD cluster older than 500 AD (red dots):

[rothaer]

Below a map from this publication - locations of individuals from the Slavic IBD cluster older than 500 AD (red dots):

This is very interetrsting as is at all that IBD sharing approach. So it's about direct relatedness, you can say. Now, what's unclear to me is whether this approach (being in a cluster that shares IBD segments with early Slavs) gives you any figures for the proportion of Slavic ancestry.

Considering what is stated in the OP the early Slavs could be determined to consist of a Baltic-realted people with some East Germanic and Sarmatian input. This implies to me that small IBD segments from all these three groups are used to assign someone to the "Slavic cluster". Now, is is possible that one or another East Germanic has suffiently many IBD segments to be assigned to that cluster?

[sevruk]

Proto Slavs=Proto Balts

[Peterski]

Among the oldest individuals from the Slavic IBD cluster there are R9673 and R6759 from Viminacium:

SRB_Viminacium:R9673,0.136588,0.126941,0.090132,0.072675,0.044624,0.030678,0.005405,0.014999,-0.005931,-0.025695,-0.004709,-0.008992,0.016055,0.014175,-0.013572,0.014717,0.026598,-0.004814,-0.001383,0.007379,0.00025,-0.008779,0.002095,-0.005784,-0.000958

SRB_Viminacium:R6759,0.124067,0.119832,0.09164,0.101422,0.047701,0.038208,0.01034,0.017768,0.001023,-0.039363,-0.004547,-0.019033,0.038057,0.03592,-0.019137,0.003447,0.014994,-0.007095,-0.00088,0.003126,-0.007736,-0.005935,0.003328,-0.007109,-0.002634