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Thread: Are the "English" or the Anglo-Saxons Germanic or Celtic?

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    Question Are the "English" or the Anglo-Saxons Germanic or Celtic?

    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance12 View Post
    The English are still a bit rebellious (their blood is too Celtic) and the Germans are the same (their blood is too Germanic).


    The English largely descend from two main historical population groups – the West Germanic tribes (the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians) who settled in southern Britain following the withdrawal of the Romans, and the partially Romanised Celtic Britons already living there.
    https://archive.is/Xs5O1#selection-309.0-309.275

    The modern English are genetically closest to the Celtic peoples of the British Isles, but the modern English are not simply Celts who speak a German language. A large number of Germans migrated to Britain in the 6th century, and there are parts of England where nearly half the ancestry is Germanic.
    https://archive.is/Xs5O1#selection-349.0-351.301

    Are the English descended from Celts? Historians teach that they are mostly descended from different peoples: the Irish from the Celts, and the English from the Anglo-Saxons who invaded from northern Europe and drove the Celts to the country's western and northern fringes.
    https://archive.is/Xs5O1#selection-383.0-385.236

    What is the origin of the British people? Modern Britons are descended mainly from the varied ethnic groups that settled in Great Britain in and before the 11th century: Prehistoric, Brittonic, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Norse, and Normans.
    https://archive.is/Xs5O1#selection-429.0-436.0

    What percentage of English DNA is Germanic? 20%–40% of English DNA also has Germanic origins, well documented in the Anglo-Saxon invasion of England (5–8 C.E.). Those tribes originate mostly in today's Denmark, where the North and West European Germanic tribes originated as well.

    What is typical English DNA? One 2016 study, using Iron Age and Anglo-Saxon era DNA found at grave sites in Cambridgeshire, calculated that ten modern-day eastern English samples had 38% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average whilst ten Welsh and Scottish samples each had 30% Anglo-Saxon ancestry, with a large statistical spread in all cases.


    Are Irish and English genetically the same? Sixty distinct 'genetic clusters' were identified in both Ireland and Britain by scientists at Trinity College Dublin (TCD). Their findings show that the Irish have considerable Norman and Viking ancestry in their blood – just like the British.

    Do Scottish and English have the same DNA? According to the data, those of Celtic ancestry in Scotland and Cornwall are more similar to the English than they are to other Celtic groups. The study also describes distinct genetic differences across the UK, which reflect regional identities.


    Are Scots Celtic or Germanic? While Highland Scots are of Celtic (Gaelic) descent, Lowland Scots are descended from people of Germanic stock. During the seventh century C.E., settlers of Germanic tribes of Angles moved from Northumbria in present-day northern England and southeastern Scotland to the area around Edinburgh.

    When did Britain stop being Celtic? The decline of Celtic languages in England was the historical process by which the Celtic languages died out in what is modern-day England. It happened in most of southern Great Britain between about 400 and 1000 AD, but in Cornwall, it was finished only in the 18th century.

    Is White British an ethnicity? White British is an ethnicity classification used for the native white population identifying as English, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Northern Irish, or British in the United Kingdom Census.

    Who occupied England before the Vikings? When the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians invaded Britain, during the 5th and 6th centuries AD, the area they conquered slowly became known as England (from Angle-land).

    Who are the natives of England? Although it was once thought that the Britons descended from the Celts, it is now believed that they were the indigenous population and that they remained in contact with their European neighbours through trade and other social exchanges.

    What race were the ancient Britons? The Britons (*Pritanī, Latin: Britanni), also known as Celtic Britons or Ancient Britons, were people of Celtic language and culture who inhabited Great Britain from at least the British Iron Age and into the Middle Ages, at which point they diverged into the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons (among others).

    Are there any original Britons left? The ancient population of Britain was almost completely replaced by newcomers about 4,500 years ago, a study shows. The findings mean modern Britons trace just a small fraction of their ancestry to the people who built Stonehenge.
    Last edited by Wunder-Zeichen; 03-15-2023 at 11:23 PM.
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    A bit of both.

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    Default Early Anglo Saxon

    According to My True Ancestry, Eurogenes 15 is a popular calculator for people of European backgrounds, while MDLP World 22 is better suited for global populations. Eurogenes K36, on the other hand, offers a larger set of 36 components, but is subject to false positive classifications.

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...27#post7681027
    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0769.SG
    Calculator: K36
    Coverage: 116675 SNPs (70.42%)


    North Sea: 32.34
    Fennoscandian: 16.5
    North Atlantic: 15.28
    Central Euro: 9.57
    French: 9.23
    Italian: 6.07
    Eastern Euro: 3.7
    East Balkan: 2.63
    North Caucasian: 2.39
    East Central Euro: 1.77
    West Caucasian: 0.52
    Armenian: 0
    Basque: 0
    Iberian: 0
    Volga-Ural: 0
    South Central Asian: 0
    West Med: 0
    Siberian: 0
    South Asian: 0

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0769.SG
    Calculator: Eurogenes K15
    Coverage: 132960 SNPs (71.98%)


    North Sea: 50.57
    Atlantic: 22.93
    Baltic: 8.61
    Eastern Euro: 7.68
    West Asian: 4.92
    West Med: 3.2
    Northeast African: 0.79
    Amerindian: 0.73
    Southeast Asian: 0.57
    Red Sea: 0
    South Asian: 0
    East Med: 0
    Oceanian: 0

    Oracles

    West_Norwegian 10.36
    Norwegian 13.17
    Danish 13.26
    Orcadian 13.4
    Norway 13.72
    Swedish 14.34
    Scotland 14.81
    North_Dutch 14.82
    Dutch 15.57
    West_Scottish 15.98
    North_Swedish 16.41
    Irish 16.96
    England 17.04
    Southeast_English 17.83
    Southwest_English 18.53
    North_German 19.28
    West_German 19.61
    Belgium 20.62
    South_Dutch 23.2
    Aland_Sweden 24.06

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0773.SG
    Calculator: MDLP World K22
    Coverage: 48769 SNPs (60.39%)


    North-East-European: 99.49
    Atlantic Mediterranean Neolithic: 0.4
    Indo-Tibetan: 0.12
    Indian: 0.01
    Melanesian: 0.01
    Austronesian: 0.01
    Samoedic: 0.01
    East-South-Asian: 0.01
    North-Siberean: 0.01
    East-Siberean: 0.01
    West-Asian: 0
    North-European-Mesolithic: 0
    Mesoamerican: 0
    Indo-Iranian: 0
    Near East: 0
    South-America Amerind: 0
    South-African: 0
    North-Amerind: 0
    Pygmy: 0
    Arctic-Amerind: 0
    Sub-Saharian: 0
    Paleo-Siberian: 0

    Oracles

    North-East-European 0.52
    Lithuanian 20.84
    Latvian 23.33
    Belarusian 26.91
    Lithuanian_V 27.01
    Estonian 28.25
    Russian 29.93
    Russian_Center 33.62
    Polish 34.85
    Russian_South 36.58
    Ukrainian 37.05
    Polish_V 37.27
    Russian_cossack 37.33
    Moldavian 37.45
    Ukrainian-East 37.54
    Russian_V 37.7
    Belarusian_V 39.31
    Russian_North 39.79
    Mordovian 39.84
    Sorb 40.3[/CENTER]
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    I think people get a bit too hung up on what X group “actually” is once they begin learning about genetics (not saying OP is this). The English ancestrally have both large measures of Ingvaeonic and Brythonic...perhaps sprinklings from other groups from the continent. Linguistically, they are Germanic...with a generous Latin influence. Culturally of course, it is more Germanic, out of the two. What Celtic components remain to this day?

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    Default Sample: Early Anglo Saxon

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0773.SG
    Calculator: Kurdish World K25
    Coverage: 40441 SNPs (41.89%)


    NE EUROPEAN: 42.66
    W STEPPE: 12.89
    BALOCHI: 10.06
    EEF: 9.79
    NEAR EASTERN: 8.2
    SHG WHG: 6.29
    E STEPPE: 5
    C AMERINDIAN: 1.88
    S INDIAN: 1.43
    W SIBERIAN: 1.42
    N AMERINDIAN: 0.23
    E SIBERIAN: 0.14
    SAN PYGMY: 0
    ALTAIAN: 0
    S AMERINDIAN: 0
    N AFRICAN: 0
    SSA: 0
    OCEANIAN: 0
    PAPUAN: 0
    ARCTIC: 0
    E AFRICAN HADZA: 0

    Oracles

    Orcadian 8.38
    Scottish 8.55
    Icelandic 8.71
    English 8.72
    Norwegian 8.74
    Czech 9.77
    Hungarian 10.49
    French 11.39
    Ukrainian 11.85
    Belarusian 12.89
    Mordovian 13.17
    Russian 13.43
    Croatian 14.26
    Finnish 14.61
    HungaryGamba_BA 15.47
    Estonian 17.19
    Lithuanian 17.46
    Spanish_North 18.24
    French_South 18.73
    Spanish 18.77

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0773.SG
    Calculator: Steppe K10
    Coverage: 40219 SNPs (39.57%)


    WHG-UHG: 41.99
    Steppe: 27.54
    Near Eastern: 27.16
    Siberian: 1.82
    Amerindian: 1.49
    Oceanian: 0
    Sub-Saharan: 0
    Hindu Kush: 0
    East Asian: 0

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0773.SG
    Calculator: Russia K8
    Coverage: 87032 SNPs (53.82%)


    East-Slavic: 45.98
    East-Finnic: 27.95
    Caucasian: 16.89
    Permic: 5.17
    Uralic: 3.9
    Siberian: 0.12
    East-Asian: 0

    Oracles

    Sweden 3.36
    Croat 5.52
    Orcadian 6
    GreatBritain 6.41
    UtahWhite 6.94
    Hungarians 8
    Belorussian 8.02
    Moldavian 8.17
    Ukranians 8.26
    Croatian 8.45
    French 10.67
    German 10.94
    Mordovians 11.23
    Selkups 11.85
    French_Basque 11.87
    Pole 12.16
    Russian 12.24
    Tatar 13.56
    Lithuanians 17.11
    Romanians 18.08

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0769.SG
    Calculator: Eurogenes K13 Ancient
    Coverage: 131612 SNPs (72.04%)


    North Atlantic: 55.91
    Baltic: 26.44
    West Asian: 7.75
    West Med: 6.32
    Northeast African: 1.05
    East Asian: 0.92
    Amerindian: 0.79
    Red Sea: 0.4
    Sub-Saharan: 0.17
    Oceanian: 0.13
    Siberian: 0.11
    East Med: 0
    South Asian: 0

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0769.SG
    Calculator: K47
    Coverage: 50539 SNPs (66.27%)


    Scando-Germanic: 32.67
    Pamirian: 0.97

    Oracles

    EuropeanAmerican 35.34
    Swedish 35.95
    PuertoRican 37.2
    Bashkir 37.84
    Tatar 38.31
    Uzbek 38.65
    Italian_North 38.92
    Colombian 39.02
    Uygur 39.17
    Jewish_Romania 39.17
    Uzbek_Turkmen 39.3
    French 39.34
    Romanian 39.49
    Tatar_Mishar 39.6
    Jewish_Ashkenazi 39.67
    Macedonian 39.7
    Udmurt 40.19
    Italian_Sicily_West 40.31
    Hazara_Afghanistan 40.44
    Montenegrin 40.54
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    Default Sample: Anglo Saxon

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Middle ► NO3423.SG
    Calculator: Eurasia K14
    Coverage: 35601 SNPs (35.38%)


    SW EUROPEAN: 44.08
    NE EUROPEAN: 40.14
    STEPPE: 15.7
    SUB SAHARAN: 0.08
    KALASH: 0
    S INDIAN: 0
    NE ASIAN: 0
    SW ASIAN: 0
    S AMERINDIAN: 0
    PAPUAN: 0
    N AMERINDIAN: 0
    PYGMY: 0

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Middle ► I0161.SG
    Calculator: Northern Eursasia K19
    Coverage: 32195 SNPs (42.22%)


    Northwest-European: 44.05
    Balto-Slavic: 18.2
    Karel-Komi: 11.24
    Megrel-Abkhaz: 7.87
    Chechen-Kumyk: 7.5
    Tajik-Bashkir: 3.98
    Chuvash: 3.15
    Chechen2: 1.74
    Udmurt: 1.63
    Itelmen-Koryak: 0.64
    Eskimo: 0
    Khanty-Mansi: 0
    Nganasan: 0
    Yakut: 0
    Buryat: 0
    Chukchi: 0

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0777.SG
    Calculator: Dnagenics World K5
    Coverage: 128337 SNPs (95.03%)


    EUROPEAN: 94.62
    AMERINDIAN-SIBERIAN: 2.56
    WEST-ASIAN: 2.19
    AFRICAN: 0.63
    ASIAN: 0

    Croat 1
    Pole 1.51
    Macedonian 1.6
    UtahWhite 1.75
    Bulgarians 2.08
    Montenegran 2.3
    Italian_North 2.4
    Sweden 2.41
    GreatBritain 2.49
    Kosovar 2.55
    Serb 2.72
    Gagauz 2.76
    Tuscan 2.9
    French 2.97
    Orcadian 3.03
    Italian_South 3.06
    Romanians 3.25
    Lithuanians 3.50
    Spaniard 3.51
    Selkups 3.76

    Sample: Anglo Saxon Early ► I0769.SG
    Calculator: Baltic-Baikal K29
    Coverage: 50533 SNPs (66.26%)


    Adygei: 23.31
    Ukrainian: 20.97
    Chuvash: 20.76
    Chechen: 9.31
    Uzbek: 8.77
    Belarus: 3.45
    Japanese: 3.01
    Moldovan: 2.14
    Russian NSK: 1.65
    Russian STV: 1.57
    Yakut: 1.5
    Komi: 1.42
    Karel: 0.95
    Mordva: 0.79
    Karachay: 0.39
    Abkhaz: 0
    Megrel: 0

    Oracles

    French 3.05
    Sweden 3.72
    Spaniard 3.89
    Pole 3.9
    UtahWhite 4.1
    Romanians 4.16
    Moldavian 4.56
    German 4.79
    Croat 5.11
    Lithuanians 5.12
    Montenegran 5.47
    Selkups 5.47
    Kosovar 5.5
    Russian 5.63
    GreatBritain 5.69
    Sardinian 5.69
    Belorussian 5.98
    Ukranians 6
    Croatian 6.08
    Bulgarians 6.24
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    There are no 'Celtic' genes since Iron Age England and continental Hallstatt_Bylany don't cluster together and Cornwall clusters closer to SouthEast England than to any demographics in Scotland and Ireland.

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