'American English' based on the pronounciation of Ireland ?

[Cold Fire]

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Something that has been on my mind for quite some time..

What are the roots of so-called American English ?


Why are 'British English' and American English different, at least in sound..?


Well..

Two things seperate American and British English ( in the long run )..

That Americans much more emphasisze the 'r' ( for example for 'car park' they would pronounce it like 'carr parrk' ) and 't's' are often made 'd's'.. Like 'sexualiddy' for 'sexuality' . .

Often people realize(d) that American English doesn't really sound like, for example, in England . .


Now, why may that be ?


I'm not American ( I'm German ) and I have heard theories about this ranging from that allegedly "the USA is a conglomerate of many tribes, that's why their language kind of developed traits of its own" to allegedly "American English is the way even the pilgrims in old times spoke , the language in England has changed over the years..."

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Well, well , well...

This fact has been running through my mind quite often..

Well , to be honest , I find the following explanation the most credible..


Listen to people from Ireland talking. Probably the rural population even more than city dwellers.. You might notice the uniqueness in their English which might remind you of the USA . .

. . ?

- - - > I find it the most plausible that American English ( or : the pronounciation ) was influenced by irish..

Think about it..

Irish are the most common group/ heritage among Euro- Americans, second place to Germans..

It's no big secret that from about 1800 on many irish settled in America . .

In fact the whole American 'Wild West' cliches, with hillbillies, drinking whiskey, dancing reel, playing the banjo etc, lol, reminds one of Ireland . .
( the so-called Wild West was more or less America in the 1800s . . )

- - - > from about 1900 or so on more and more Germans moved there , so , yes , in newer times Germans have become the largest ancestor-group among Euro-Americans yet, like I said, next to irish....

.. while the 'Founding Fathers' a la Washington , Jefferson et al must still have spoken British , like I said , from about 1800 on more and more Irish moved there..

The U.S.A. did start out as an English colony...

.. I might add that this seems to be a fitting theory for Canada too . . Actually for all of English-speaking North America. After all, ((America)) is ((America))..

When moving to America , or The Americas people often did not have the U.S. in mind specifically.. Often also Canada . . - - > North America . .


Australia , for example ,also is, in a way , an English colony , it was settled from Britain..

Yet Australia still has kind of a British pronounciation...

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. . when one considers the fact that, if this theory was true ,it would maybe also be visible by religious denomiation within America , since the Irish are said to be a largely Catholic people , well .. religious denominational balance came and went in America.....

What remains to say is that, since many Europeans at all times sought a better life in America because of eventual powers in Europe , Ireland at one time was almost regarded as some kind of 'poor-house' within Europe... No wonder many people there in old times maybe sought to leave..

And many people are aware of the Great Potato Famine among the Irish especially in the 1800s . .

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What do you think...?

..plausible.. ?


For the record , two random YouTube vids ,one in a way demonstarting British English , the other the pronounciation of Ireland..

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. . . . ?

Your opinions.. ?

[Cold Fire]

. . how I view America as such..

It, from the beginning, was more or less planned as ' the new world ' as opposed to the 'Old Europe ', where people from Europe strought to start 'a different life '.. Often the people in question were victims of religious discrimination in Europe ( each case might have differed from another.. ).. You have to remember that in older times people were not maybe just looked down upon because of having a different faith than the rest of a region , they could actually be POLITICALLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST because of their faith..

So.. mass immigration to America began..


It may have started out as an English colony , soon every European naval power at that time sought influence there ( French , still the Spanish , Dutch ...) , in time.. see above..

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Concerning the original claim of this thread.. it would make sense that Irish maybe would in time become the largest immigrant caste to America.. first of all, Ireland had many religious tensions, second, as a said, Ireland at a time was somewhat regarded as some kind of 'poor- house' even in Europe, it lay on the outskirts of Europe etc, etc ..

I still am to say that many 'true American phenomena ', like the Wild West cliche of the 1800s,with drinking whiskey, hillbillies, playing the banjo, dancing reel etc, heehee , clearly point to a heavy Irish influence.. And, as for the original title of this thread , the language..


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.. face it guys.. there are just some stereotypes about civilisations which may sometimes be true..

.

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.. yee-hawww!!

[Smeagol]

I still am to say that many 'true American phenomena ', like the Wild West cliche of the 1800s,with drinking whiskey, hillbillies, playing the banjo, dancing reel etc, heehee , clearly point to a heavy Irish influence..

More Scots-Irish. The Irish Catholics were mostly concentrated in urban areas. Also, German is not the largest ancestry among white Americans when you take into account all the southerners who just describe themselves as "American" but are mostly of English or Scots-Irish descent.

[Östsvensk]

In the 18th century, a London accent sounded a lot more like modern-day American English than a modern London accent does.

[Grace O'Malley]

People don't realise the English accent was once rhotic like the Irish and American accents. When the English colonised the US they still had a rhotic accent and it is the English accent that has changed to non-rhotic. Irish and Americans retain the earlier rhotic accents.

Those of us who roll our Rs – and this is one the few issues on which Ireland is united, north and south – are said by linguists to have "rhotic" accents.

Which is not to be confused “erotic”, although there may occasionally be overlaps, a subject to which we’ll return.

And English accents were mostly rhotic once, it’s thought, even Shakespeare’s.

But then Britain, or at least the influential southeast, began a long retreat from rhoticity. Eventually, r-rolling became unfashionable there, so that in rhotic outposts, including Ireland, Scotland, and the English west country, the tendency helped mark you out to London ears as a bumpkin.

This suppression of R sounds was in time exported to the colonies of South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand, all non-rhotic countries today. It also went to America, making the English-speaking parts of that predominantly non-rhotic for a time.

But here’s the irony for Churchillian English. It was war, and the Civil War in particular, that transformed the US into the rhotic world power it became, by nudging the country’s centre of gravity south from New England to places where the “prestige” accent was being overwhelmed by vulgar democracy.

The tidal wave of Irish immigrants in the mid-1800s must have been an influence too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/r...orld-1.3062373

There are still counties in England now that are rhotic such as Somerset and Devon.

Just out of interest for people the Dublin accent evolved from the Bristol accent.

The medieval connections
2021-2 marks the 850th anniversary of the conquest of Ireland by King Henry II of England. During his stay in Dublin at Christmas 1171, the king issued an extraordinary charter whereby he granted Dublin to ‘my men of Bristol’ and gave them permission to colonise their new possession.

https://artsmatter.blogs.bristol.ac....ol-and-dublin/

[Zevoos]

American English is based on the degradation of English English.


"A little bottler of water" 0:50 sums it up perfectly.

[Creoda]

[Östsvensk]

There are still counties in England now that are rhotic such as Somerset and Devon.

[Anglo-Celtic]

In the 18th century, a London accent sounded a lot more like modern-day American English than a modern London accent does.

LOL at the disclaimer. "Gee, Marge, those are real recordings of actual individuals from 1346!"

[Östsvensk]

LOL at the disclaimer. "Gee, Marge, those are real recordings of actual individuals from 1346!"

Huh? He says that in the video? I missed that. Anyway, he's not a linguist (as he states himself), so it's not the most serious video in the world. But it's still accurate to say that in 18th century England they spoke more like American English.

The British settlers coming to different parts of America in the 17th and 18th centuries were from different regional, class, and religious backgrounds, and brought with them distinctive ways of speaking. Puritans from East Anglia contributed to the classic Boston accent; Royalists migrating to the South brought a drawl; and Scots-Irish moved to the Appalaichans. Today’s American English is actually closer to 18th-century British English in pronunciation than current-day British English is. Sometime in the 19th century, British pronunciation changed significantly, particularly whether “r”s are pronounced after vowels.

https://www.vox.com/2015/3/3/8053521...xplain-english