Hungarian parliament approved Finland's NATO membership

[Lemminkäinen]

We all have some kind of bias, inherent almost as a primary instinct to every human being, but I think that we can agree that some more than others, and that among those who usually have less is many times because they want to be intellectually honest, so they try as much as possible to get rid of biases in order to give opinions as close to the truth as possible on a given issue.

It's not about being perfect, which is impossible, it's about trying to be as perfect as possible, or at least not consciously and deliberately being imperfect.

I question myself, but it frustrated me to see besserwisserism.

[Blondie]

Now tell me my ''Dear'', what makes Finns coward, like you have said (if some Finnish politicians negotiated with Russians .... even started by Churcill) and Hungarians opposite not as doing totally same? And
Hungary become occupied by Nazi Germany (Finns opposite kicked them out via Lapland War) and after end of the WWII Hungary ended to puppets of Russians (as you deserved that) and Finland kept its sovereignty? Even Stalin admitted that Finns deserves that.

The difference is in Hungary nobody cared about the peace with soviets, they wanted to continue the war, unlike finns. Every single hungarian settlement were besiged by soviets, including the capital. Budapest was often called that second Stalingrad. Thats never happened in Finland, because finns gived up the war. Thats called opportunism. The finnish opportunism is very clearly if you see your history, for example lack of revolutionary wars. Why are finns so brave? Yes they were brave in the Winter War, but this is only one moment in the 1000 years old finnish history.

And your talks about fought last man ... your last man means the last soldiers (in Hungary). As you said earlier. I can promise you that in case of Finland all men fought (since 13/14 years old boys to old men who simply could walk. Less than 5 million nation needed all of them. Even women (air controlling, nursering, making clothes, making food etc.). My granny participated as 7 years old (a small Lotta).

Dont worry, hungarians, germans, croats etc also did it.

Your bravery is a fake vs Finns.

Youre the perfect example if someone has no history and became insecure, just like most of dumb nordicists. Hungary (along with Poland) defeated the mongols and saved the whole continent from this mass murder horde:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second...ion_of_Hungary

Ottomans were stopped in the Carpathian Basin, the hungarian army played a big role to save Central Europe from islamization/ottoman opression. There was common austrian-hungarian crusade to the Holy Land, the hungarian king II. András became the king of Jerusalem too. And there are tons of such thing from the hungarian history, but what finns did at this time? Nothing, they were just peaceful slaves of swedes or russians for 1000 years. Yeah very brave behaviour.... we are not on same level in historical past.

PS: Do you think the Japanese were cowards (WWII) as they really surrendered (opposite to Finns) after two atomic bombs? Maybe they should had continued fighting and taken still 3 or even 5 more? No other questions...

I have no good opinion on japanese.

[Anglo-Celtic]

What else should the US have done to support Russia more? Just ignore the invasions of pro-Western Georgia and Ukraine like they never happened? You made it sound like the American military was thirsting for war with Russia when this deterioration only happened after Russia invaded.

We could have engaged in more joint ventures of exploration in the ocean and space, and we could have asked them to join NATO. Instead, we acted like it was still the Cold War when our "thirsty" leaders chose to surround them with new NATO members. That's what got the ball rolling to where we are now. They were surrounded by potential enemies, so calls for good relations were as laughable as pretending that Zelensky is a heroic force for liberty.

[Finnish Swede]

I have no good opinion on japanese.

Yes, I ''knew'' you do not have (that was the reason I asked that). Just wanted to hear it from you here in TA.

I opposite have (knowing the circumstances enough).

That is our difference.


The rest? All have been said many time already earlier, so no needs to repeat them.

[Lemminkäinen]

We could have engaged in more joint ventures of exploration in the ocean and space, and we could have asked them to join NATO. Instead, we acted like it was still the Cold War when our "thirsty" leaders chose to surround them with new NATO members. That's what got the ball rolling to where we are now. They were surrounded by potential enemies, so calls for good relations were as laughable as pretending that Zelensky is a heroic force for liberty.

Does Germany belong to the Nato? It sounds illogical that they had good relations with Russia. Only members who belonged to the Warsaw pact object Russia. Watch the video clip I put here a few messages ago. The Russian politics has set it like "they are ours". In a long run sounds like a new Cold War. Only the temporary weakness after the Sovjet collapse made Russia moderate. Are UK and France yours, like we seem to be property of Russia? Did USA give 30 years ago to the Russia a possibility to be yours? Yes, but Russians didn't want it. Joint ventures would have put them kissing US plans? Or you kissing Russian plans?

[Finnish Swede]

Does Germany belong to the Nato? It sounds illogical that they had good relations with Russia. Only members who belonged to the Warsaw pact object Russia. Watch the video clip I put here a few messages ago. The Russian politics has set it like "they are ours". In a long run sounds like a new Cold War. Only the temporary weakness after the Sovjet collapse made Russia moderate. Are UK and France yours, like we seem to be property of Russia? Did USA give 30 years ago to the Russia a possibility to be yours? Yes, but Russians didn't want it. Joint ventures would have put them kissing US plans? Or you kissing Russian plans?

The only way ''West'' could have co-operated with Russians since 2000 to these days would have been to support the Super-Power position of Russians in World's global policy (after the collapse of Sovjet Union). This (or risk of losing this) is the real reason why Putin started to behave like he did. Or what he does today.


Now, I do not know if USA/Americans (which means exaclty the same/only as ''West'' to Russia) could have benefitted for that kind of actions (= supportins Super Power position of Russians) but for rest of us ... ''west'' in Europe, especially to their small neighborns .... strong Russia is exactly the worse kind of bogyman.

[Lemminkäinen]

The only way ''West'' could have co-operated with Russians since 2000 to these days would have been to support the Super-Power position of Russians in World's global policy (after the collapse of Sovjet Union). This (or risk of losing this) is the real reason why Putin started to behave like he did. Or what he does today.


Now, I do not know if USA/Americans (which means exaclty the same/only as ''West'' to Russia) could have benefitted for that kind of actions (= supportins Super Power position of Russians) but for rest of us ... ''west'' in Europe, especially to their small neighborns .... strong Russia is exactly the worse kind of bogyman.

Russia seeks always more land. This is how it differs from USA. Did Stalin feel after the war gratitude of the US help in the WWII. Njet. It was ok to help Russia, but not now to help Ukraine. Of course this makes sense. In the WWII it helped to get more land, now it is conversely. Russia would have easily continued profitable oil and gas trade to Germany and other Euro countries if they could have left politics out of the bill. It is German hindsight to say "but Americans". Saying that Americans don't allow us to have nukes makes sense, saying that Americans don't allow us to become dependent of Russia doesn't.

[rothaer]

Someone being unbiased? Maybe Santa Claus is real.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union has been used by the US-led Nato to since the dissolotion of the Soviet Union to adopt as members not just Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, but also the former Soviet republics of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. This all was also against what was (outside of formal treaties) promised to the Soviet side in 1990 when it was about the German (partial) reunification. For orientation: It was formally contracted that non-German Nato troops are not allowed on the territory of the FRG that was before GDR and this is in force till this very day.

The adoption as members of all the mentioned countries could still be motivated by a pure European defence interest.

But not so with the going further USA activities. The USA tried to get Georgia into the Nato, it had used military bases in Kasachstan and install themselves there permanenty (it failed) and lately tried the same in Tajikistan. And you know how long such things then can persist even in a regretting and not-anymore agreeing country (cf. Guantánamo on Cuba). Nothing of that has anything to do with justified defence interests of Nato countries. And all these hostile approaches are made towards Russia in a manner that the USA would never accept regarding themselves (see the Cuba crisis).

Its dominance is the USA using for its economical interests, as you amongst others things could see when it put sanctions already to the companies that built Nord Stream I. Russia (and the irrelevant Belarus) is the only remaining not manipulated by the US country in Europe. This is why the USA is that hostile towards Russia and not because of democracy deficienceis and corruption. Best buddies of the USA like Saudi Arabia and Egypt prove that the USA doesn't care for such conditions.

You may like this US agenda for whatever reason, but if you don't even see it, you are not especially clear sighted to express it politely.

[rothaer]

Russia seeks always more land. This is how it differs from USA. Did Stalin feel after the war gratitude of the US help in the WWII. Njet. It was ok to help Russia, but not now to help Ukraine. Of course this makes sense. In the WWII it helped to get more land, now it is conversely. Russia would have easily continued profitable oil and gas trade to Germany and other Euro countries if they could have left politics out of the bill. It is German hindsight to say "but Americans". Saying that Americans don't allow us to have nukes makes sense, saying that Americans don't allow us to become dependent of Russia doesn't.

But being dependent on the Americans is fine?

In contrast to Russia where we got rid of their occupation troops in 1994, the Americans are still there, now for soon 80 years. Like a louse in our fur that we can't get rid of. And they illegally are wiretapping the German chancellor's phone, shrugging their shoulders and violating whatever German laws they want in Germany. This is humiliating and disgusting. They are the pest to Germans, not the Russians. And what did the Russians do to us the last 25 years? Provide us with cheap energy.

In fact the Russians are our only hope to get out of this American captivity.

[Finnish Swede]

But being dependent on the Americans is fine?

In contrast to Russia where we got rid of their occupation troops in 1994, the Americans are still there, now for soon 80 years. Like a louse in our fur that we can't get rid of. And they illegally are wiretapping the German chancellor's phone, shrugging their shoulders and are violating whatever German laws they want in Germany. This is humiliating and disgusting. They are the pest to Germans, not the Russians. And what did the Russians do to us the last 25 years? Provide us with cheap energy.

In fact the Russians are our only hope to get out of this American captivity.

The problem is that your option is even worse than the present situation.


That is why nobody wants that in Europe. Not Finns who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, Not any Baltics who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know, not Poles who knows Russians better than you/Germans can ever know. Maybe you did not learn enough end of WWII, maybe you live too far from Russia. Maybe you have too little real life common experiences with Russians.