Philosopher atheist Vs Muslim discussion ( MUST WATCH!!)

[Avicenna]

[Laly]

I would like to address the so-called “miracles of the Quran” mentioned in the end of the video, referring to surah 30 – “Romans”.

First of all, the Quran mentions nowhere that the Byzantines would defeat the Persians within three to nine years, contrarily to what is insinuated in the video. It comes from hadith literature. See this sahih hadith:

“Some of the Quraish said: 'Then this is (a bet) between us and you. Your companion claims that the Romans will defeat the Persians in Bid' years, so why have a bet on that between us and you?' Abu Bakr said: 'Yes.' This was before betting has been forbidden. So Abu Bakr and the idolaters made a bet, and they said to Abu Bakr: 'What do you think – Bid' means something between three and nine years, so let us agree on the middle.' So they agreed on six years; Then six years passed without the Romans being victorious. The idolaters took what they won in the bet from Abu Bakr. When the seventh year came and the Romans were finally victorious over the Persians, the Muslims rebuked Abu Bakr for agreeing to six years. He said: 'Because Allah said: 'In Bid' years.' At that time, many people became Muslims."

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:3194

Actually, the “prophecy” is unfulfilled since the if the Byzantines were defeated in 613-614, nine years later, in 622-623, they are not victorious and they will still face a lot of difficulties. The victory of the Byzantines is in 628, so 14-15 years later, not between three and nine years later.

Then, if you don’t take into consideration that period of three to nine years from the hadith, there’s still absolutely nothing exceptional in that “prophecy”, since it was a common belief in that period that the Byzantines would win. The Quranic passage concerning the Byzantines can actually be traced back to contemporary apocalyptic texts. There were Christian and Jewish prophecies from that period which predicted the Byzantine victory. It was in the spirit of the time to think so, the conflict was seen as the beginning of the eschatological process, the beginning of the Messianic era and the Byzantines’ victory was seen as part of the divine plan. The author(s) of the Quran obviously knew about that.

There’s a very interesting article on this topic here:
https://www.academia.edu/36263369/_T...2018_95_1_1_29

And according to the author of the article above-mentioned, the passage of the Quran constitutes a vaticinium ex eventu, that is a so-called prediction inserted in a prophetic text after the events took place, so after the Byzantine victory and 628 would then be a terminus postquem for the elaboration of the passage. So, the text would have been written a posteriori of events that already had taken place.

Furthermore, the Muslim guy from the video says that the Quran evokes “the lowest point on earth” as the place where the Byzantines were defeated. The obvious meaning of “adna” is “near” or “nearest”, so the meaning of the verse would be “the nearer land”. “Adna” could also mean “less”, “low”, “lower” but there is no occurrence of “adna” as “lowest”, which seems to be a late, modern meaning.

See “Dal-Nun-Waw”: http://www.studyquran.co.uk/5_DAL.htm

http://ejtaal.net/aa/#hw4=353,ll=963...,ens=1,mis=682

Also, the Byzantines were not defeated at the Dead Sea shore, but in Jerusalem, which is way above the sea level, it’s even higher than the highest point in Belgium. And the Dead Sea shore isn’t the lowest point on earth, but the lowest point on "dry" land, the valley at Byrd Glacier in Antarctica being lower than the Dead Sea shore.



https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/1...ier-antarctica

And finally, since Biblical times, regions of the Holy Land are called “lowlands”, the Philistines and Canaanites being called lowlanders.



https://www.google.be/books/edition/...sec=frontcover

Also, there’s a region which is, since Biblical times and until today, called Shephelah, that is “Lowland” and which goes until Jerusalem:

https://www.internationalstandardbib...shephelah.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shephelah

So, “adna” is equivocal. If something exceptional was meant, a clearer formulation could have been used. And anyway, there were regions well known as “lowlands” in the Holy Land. If really the author(s) of the Quran meant “low” or “lower”, which we can doubt, it could have been in reference to these regions.