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Thread: Massacre in the elementary school in Belgrade

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    Quote Originally Posted by dviz View Post
    Could anyone own a handgun?

    In communist Romania you could own only rifles, but you had to have a hunter permit. No handguns were allowed.
    I don't know how common they were in Albania but my maternal grandfather owned a revolver. He had it since 1944 when he was in the antifascist movement.

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    it's a francophile bi-lingual serbian school with french teaching,one french national school girl was killed amid the 8 victims
    “the right of peoples to self-determination”
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolfrenchguy View Post
    it's a francophile bi-lingual serbian school with french teaching,one french national school girl was killed amid the 8 victims
    This woman is a foreigner (probably French), it's visible in her accent https://youtu.be/tRR7kRXIDp8?t=30
    Her daughter go in school where massacre happened, but she is OK.

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    Anyone who has been following Serbian (local) news actively shouldn't be surprised that such a violent event happened here. There has been an incredible surge in violence and recklessness since the start of February this year. It's not just murders, suicides, beatings, fatal accidents, etc. but you can literally feel the tension in the air. My current job involves handling calls from people all over Serbia and an increasingly large number of callers have been rude, entitled, aggressive, manic and often straight up bloodthirsty. As a matter of fact, they have been so awful that the stress has started taking a toll on my physical wellbeing.

    I knew a large violent event was bound to happen and I even expected it on Easter. Turns out it was only about two weeks late That all being said, nobody could have predicted a 13-year-old of all people would go and shoot up a school in the very center of Belgrade! A school shooting is completely outrageous and unheard of in the entire region. Even for American standards the age of the shooter makes this shocking. My father, aunt and a second cousin all attended that very same school. I passed by it numerous times and it's still hard for me to digest what happened today.

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    Senior Member Jankec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varda View Post
    This woman is a foreigner (probably French), it's visible in her accent https://youtu.be/tRR7kRXIDp8?t=30
    Her daughter go in school where massacre happened, but she is OK.
    I don't think so. She doesn't make grammar mistakes and her brother also lives in Serbia. I think she is Serbian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonSense View Post
    Anyone who has been following Serbian (local) news actively shouldn't be surprised that such a violent event happened here. There has been an incredible surge in violence and recklessness since the start of February this year. It's not just murders, suicides, beatings, fatal accidents, etc. but you can literally feel the tension in the air. My current job involves handling calls from people all over Serbia and an increasingly large number of callers have been rude, entitled, aggressive, manic and often straight up bloodthirsty. As a matter of fact, they have been so awful that the stress has started taking a toll on my physical wellbeing.

    I knew a large violent event was bound to happen and I even expected it on Easter. Turns out it was only about two weeks late That all being said, nobody could have predicted a 13-year-old of all people would go and shoot up a school in the very center of Belgrade! A school shooting is completely outrageous and unheard of in the entire region. Even for American standards the age of the shooter makes this shocking. My father, aunt and a second cousin all attended that very same school. I passed by it numerous times and it's still hard for me to digest what happened today.
    In 1990s and first several years of 21st century there was much more weapons in Serbia than today, and the students did not shot at each other.

    Many kids 12-16 years old are cheeky, conceited and they don't respect elders. I know such kids from my environment, some of them are my cousins. Interesting, their parents drive them to school as retards. During my schooling we went to school alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varda View Post
    In 1990s and first several years of 21st century there was much more weapons in Serbia than today, and the students did not shot at each other.
    Are you sure? There weren't such tragedies, but I'm sure there were cases when one child killed another (friend, cousin etc.).

    Jurica Pavičić wrote something about weapons in Croatia and other parts of Yugoslavia, before war and now:

    "Sredinom osamdesetih godina služio sam vojni rok u tadašnjoj Jugoslavenskoj narodnoj armiji, u jednom garnizonu na krajnjem zapadu Makedonije. Kao i mnogim muškarcima iz zapadnih dijelova Jugoslavije koji su u ta doba služili vojsku, boravak u JNA i meni je odškrinuo vrata u dotad nepoznati svijet. Bio je to svijet kulturalnih razlika unutar tadašnje zemlje.

    Ljudi koji su tih godina odlazili u JNA odlazili su obično s predodžbom da su svi njihovi vršnjaci u neku ruku slični. Da svi dolaze s istih asfalta, iz sličnih socijalističkih visokogradnji, da svi slušaju Azru ili Idole i žive slične živote urbanizirane, modernizirane Jugoslavije. A onda biste otišli u JNA - i doživjeli iznenađenje. To iznenađenje ne biste doživjeli samo vi, nego i svatko vama sličan, vaš vršnjak iz Osijeka, Maribora ili Beograda.

    Pred vama bi se najednom raskrililo neusporedivo kompleksnije društvo od onog koje ste zamišljali: društvo s enormnim klasnim i kulturalnim razlikama, društvo vjerskih i mentalitetnih proturječja i stilova života koji su vam bili nepojmljivi. A među tim kulturalnim razlikama bila je jedna osobito upečatljiva: odnos prema oružju.

    Tih osamdesetih čuvao sam nekakvu stražu s čovjekom par godina starijim, Albancem sa sjevera Crne Gore. Riječ po riječ, počeli smo razgovarati o puškama i oružju. U jednom trenutku, on se iskreno zabezeknuo kad sam mu rekao kako u kući mojih roditelja ne postoji niti je ikad postojalo ikakvo vatreno oružje. S nehinjenom me nevjericom promatrao, uistinu osupnut što moji doma nemaju, eto, ni lovačku pušku, ni karabinu, ni papovku, pa čak ni obični, pišljivi pištolj tetejac. "Pa dobro, kako se vi branite?" upitao me s nevjericom Zeqir (mislim da se tako zvao), a ja sam mu s jednakom nevjericom odgovorio "branim - od čega?"

    Tako je to izgledalo 1985., u zimu. Tako je izgledalo u doba kad Hrvati kod kuće nisu držali oružje.

    Jer, u to doba Hrvati - doista - nisu imali oružje kod kuće. Taj odnos prema oružju bio je jedna od tananih, fragilnih civilizacijskih razlika koje su dijelile jugoslavenski zapad i sjever (sjever uključuje Beograd i Vojvodinu) od juga i istoka. Postojali su, naravno, ljudi koji su kod kuće imali nekakvo oružje po prirodi svog posla: oficiri, policajci, lovci ili lovočuvari. Ali, onkraj te tanke profesionalne demografije, oružje je u kući u Hrvatskoj bilo tabu.

    Ne mogu uopće zamisliti što bi ljudi iz moje obitelji ili ambijenta pomislili kad bi saznali da netko koga poznaju kod kuće bezrazložno drži pušku. Smatrali bi ga u najboljem slučaju čudakom, u najgorem opasno maloumnim. Jer, tada - za razliku od danas - ljudi su intuitivno razumijevali mehanizam dramaturgije koji je rječito sročio Čehov. Ako, naime, u prvom činu na zidu visi puška, u trećem će netko tom puškom (sebe ili drugog) upucati.

    Tako je to bilo kad je Hrvatska još bila na Balkanu. Kad - jel'te - još nije bila Europa.

    Sada Hrvatska, ako nisam nešto pogriješio, više nije na Balkanu. Sada je - čak i doslovno-politički - u Europi. A taj "izlazak s Balkana" očitovao se u Hrvatskoj kroz nekoliko zanimljivih i upečatljivih epifenomena. Prvi je da svi gledaju turske sapunice. Drugi, da se posvuda ori turbofolk muzika koja je nekad na rubovima asfalta zastajala kao pred električnom žicom. A treći - i najproblematičniji - vid balkanizacije dojučerašnje Balkanije jest - odnos prema oružju.

    A kako izgleda taj odnos prema kulturi oružja doznali smo na najtragičniji način ovoga tjedna. Ovoga tjedna, naime, uočljivo poremećeni 22-godišnjak iz malog mjestašca kod Kutine uzeo je malokalibarsku pušku AK 47 s preklopnim kundakom, sjeo u vlak iz Kutine za Zagreb, došao pred sjedište Sabora i Vlade te počeo nasumice pucati na potplaćene primjerke radničke klase: obične, temeljne policajce. Rezultat svi znamo. Jedan od temeljaca ima samo propucane hlače, drugom će do kraja života u karlici ostati geler, a 22-godišnjak (kojem namjerno, zbog Breivik-efekta prešućujem ime) par blokova dalje se u rastrojstvu ubio.

    Drugi čin, onaj koji je za našu temu bitan, dogodio se sutradan. Policija je pretresla kuću teroristova oca i u njoj pronašla više dugih cijevi, snajperski nišan, te tisuću i kusur bojevih metaka. A kad su napadačeva strica novinari pitali za komentar, on im je odgovorio s bezazlenom iskrenošću od koje se ledi krv: "Nema tko nije nešto iz rata donio".

    Nema tko nije nešto iz rata donio. I basta.

    Istina, nije bio osobiti problem "nešto" iz rata donijeti. Uostalom, i ja pamtim proljeće '92. i južno bojište kad bih se svakih 14 dana vraćao s ture, pa bih ispod kreveta u spavaću sobu parkirao kalašnjikov 7.62 i pet punjenja okvira. Oružja je tada bilo posvuda: pištolja i pušaka, snajpera, papovki i kalaša, "rumunjki", "mađarica" i "ciganki" koji su se nosili po gradu, držali na ormaru i u gepeku auta. "You were sweet and mean/like the M-16", pjevao je vijetnamskoj pušci bitnički pjesnik kojem sam zaboravio ime, a ista ta erotska, puškofilna fiksacija očito je tih godina drmala tisuće naših sugrađana. Lako je tih godina bilo nabaviti cijev viška, lako je bilo "zaboraviti" tu cijev na vrhu ormara ili pod krevetom. Lako je bilo "zaboraviti" jednu od njih, ili više njih, pa tako desetljećima.

    I - bogme - mnogi su to napravili. Navodno, takvih koji su to napravili u Hrvatskoj ima oko tristo tisuća.

    S posljedicama koje gledamo danas. Jer, bio je u pravu Čehov. Kad u prvom činu (1995.) puška visi na zidu, u trećem (2020.) ta će puška opaliti.

    U trenutku dok pišem ovaj tekst, ne znam je li malokalibarski kalaš kojim je kutinski terorist propucao policajca bio dio očeva ratnog arsenala, ili ga je mladić nabavio sa strane (što - uzgred - uopće nije problem, kako je dokazao naš novinar Mario Pušić kad je 2019. u svrhu reportaže nabavio kalašnjikov za 36 sati). No, bila ta puška iz kućnog arsenala ili ipak ne, svejedno je. Jer, postoji direktna uzročno-posljedična veza između kulture oružja, skladištenja oružja i fiksacije oružjem kojoj je mladić bio izložen, te onog što je s oružjem u ruci učinio.

    Mladog napadača izravno je ubila puška iz vlastite ruke. Ali, njega su neizravno ubile puške iz vitrina, puške ispod ormara, puške na počasnom mjestu iznad vrata, ubile su ga puške na muralima, puške na navijačkim banerima i automobilskim šoferšajbama. Iz rata je izišla cijela jedna generacija nepovratno opijena fetišizmom oružja, taj je fetišizam prenijela na djecu, a ta su djeca odrasla u tom pijanstvu. Odrasla su zadojena patrijarhalnim kultom herojstva, fascinirana nasiljem i nacijom, duboko frustrirana što im je uskraćena povijesna prilika da i sami malo ratuju.

    Premda mrze Tita, a imaju tek rubno pojma tko je Balašević, ta djeca nehotice pastiširaju njegovu ulizivačku pjesmu.

    Poručuju "računajte na nas". Kažu nam da je "i u njima bitaka plam". Vjeruju da i njih čeka "još sto ofenziva" i usrdno se ufaju da "život pred njima/još bitaka skriva." A kad im već ta kurva život uskraćuje "sto ofenziva", "bitaka plam" će oni aranžirati u svojoj produkciji.

    Tih devedesetih, mogao sam bez i najmanjih problema popaliti neki kalašnjikov na frontu i ponijeti ga doma. Bilo je i oružja, bilo je i prilike. Nisam to učinio zato što je iz mene još progovarala moja kultura onakva kakva je bila 1985. I dalje mi se činilo da normalan čovjek ne može htjeti imati automatsku pušku kod kuće. Da automatsku pušku kod kuće može držati samo čudak, ili maloumnik, ili opasna osoba. Da puška koju držite kod kuće jednom, prije ili poslije, mora opaliti - bilo na Markovu trgu ili u podrumu dok je čistite. Razmišljao sam kao onaj ja, Prosječni Hrvat, koji je 1985. razgovarao sa Sandžaklijom Zeqirom. Ne sluteći da će se njegova nacija u idućih deset godina pretvoriti u naciju Zeqira.

    Jer, to je upravo ono što se od 1985. dogodilo. Tada - kad smo, hm, "još bili Balkan" - imali smo kao nacija duboki, razložni zazor od oružja u kući. Taj nas je zazor činio za jedan mali miligram civiliziranijima. Danas, trideset i pet godina kasnije, tristo tisuća građana Hrvatske drži bez skrupula oružje kod kuće jer - kako se ono kaže - "ne vjeruje sistemu"? Pa se - ako sam dobro shvatio - "kani od sistema braniti"? Ili - možda naprosto snuju novi rat, pa da eto budu spremni? Možda još nemamo Boogaloo Boyse, možda civili još ne špartaju trgovima s M-16 u ruci i redenicima oko ramena - ali, oružje je tu, ideologija je tu, tu je i famozno "nepovjerenje u sustav". Koji gazi "ljucke" vrijednosti.

    Pa u ime "ljuckih" vrijednosti propucate temeljnog policajca s 5000 kuna plaće.

    Pred trideset i pet godina, po kulturi oružja mi smo bili Massachusetts ili Vermont. U međuvremenu, eto, postali smo Teksas i Nebraska, postali smo Apalačko gorje. To je samo jedna, ne jedina, od divnih posljedica koje su nam nanijeli "prošlost i bitke daleke". Koji nam je nanio sustav koji je na puškama nastao, koji je puškama moralno licitirao. Pa je sad dočekao da se te puške s podruma i pod krevetom - okrenu protiv njega."

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    Veteran Member CommonSense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varda View Post
    In 1990s and first several years of 21st century there was much more weapons in Serbia than today, and the students did not shot at each other.

    Many kids 12-16 years old are cheeky, conceited and they don't respect elders. I know such kids from my environment, some of them are my cousins. Interesting, their parents drive them to school as retards. During my schooling we went to school alone.
    All one has to do is read the instagram comments where the other kids are praising his kill count and they will know how bad things are.

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    Veteran Member coolfrenchguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonSense View Post
    Anyone who has been following Serbian (local) news actively shouldn't be surprised that such a violent event happened here. There has been an incredible surge in violence and recklessness since the start of February this year. It's not just murders, suicides, beatings, fatal accidents, etc. but you can literally feel the tension in the air. My current job involves handling calls from people all over Serbia and an increasingly large number of callers have been rude, entitled, aggressive, manic and often straight up bloodthirsty. As a matter of fact, they have been so awful that the stress has started taking a toll on my physical wellbeing.

    I knew a large violent event was bound to happen and I even expected it on Easter. Turns out it was only about two weeks late That all being said, nobody could have predicted a 13-year-old of all people would go and shoot up a school in the very center of Belgrade! A school shooting is completely outrageous and unheard of in the entire region. Even for American standards the age of the shooter makes this shocking. My father, aunt and a second cousin all attended that very same school. I passed by it numerous times and it's still hard for me to digest what happened today.
    yes,even in france with our shit what we have to deal with ,it's pretty bloody violent too but for different reasons,more on the political plan with these fucking fucked up "black blocks" with their far-leftist friends


    ,but school shootings in europe are quite rare even in france

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#Europe
    “the right of peoples to self-determination”
    http://sciencenordic.com/
    "talking to an asshole is like masturbating with a cheese grinder, it's painful and counterproductive" .Pierre desproges






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