Finland vs USSR(Russia). Whose side would you take?

[Lemminkäinen]

Do you agree with the list Lemmi?



I once met shortly the 7. man's daughter. She was an old woman. She fought for 10 years on behalf of his father's medals and finally as won the case, she donated all of them to Finland's military museum.

Sure those, mostly officers, were great soldiers, but I am more a soul mate of Väinö Linna. I have not ranked them.

[KirillMazur]

USSR, of course.
The winter war played a big role for the future of my country - 1) forced training of inexperienced combat and command personnel of the Red Army. 2) In terms of combat readiness, Hitler decided that the USSR was a "colossus with feet of clay", and this greatly brought the beginning of the Great Patriotic War closer.

Spoiler!

The Foreign Intelligence Service told how Britain and France wanted to hit the USSR in 1940.
Great Britain and France at the beginning of 1940 wanted to prolong the Soviet-Finnish war, so that at the right moment, setting their population against the Soviet Union, they would jointly strike at the weakened USSR from Finland, declassified archival documents made public by the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service say this.

https://www.prlib.ru/item/1322852

The publication is dedicated to the 102nd anniversary of the creation of the national foreign intelligence service.

Among these materials is a memo from the 5th Department of the Main Directorate of State Security of the NKVD of the USSR (foreign intelligence) "on intelligence information received from China that Great Britain and France want to wage war against the USSR in Finland, potentially including Germany joining this war. The document was drawn up on March 4, 1940, that is, at the very end of the Soviet-Finnish "winter war".

"France and England very much want the war to continue for a long time in order to weaken the power of the USSR," a source of Soviet intelligence in China reported.

As noted in the document, Britain and France are trying to use the Finnish war "as a pretext for inciting public opinion against the USSR, forcing the Finns to support their government in all activities that are directed against the USSR." According to the source, London and Paris "want to wage war against the USSR on the territory of Finland."

From the very beginning of the "winter war" the West provided Finland with not only diplomatic but also military support. In particular, an international unit almost the size of a division fought on the side of the Finns - about 10 thousand people, formed from Swedes, Norwegians, Danes. Citizens of the USA, Great Britain and Estonia came to Finland. The Finnish side was supplied with 350 combat aircraft, 1.5 thousand artillery pieces of various calibers, 2.5 million shells, 6 thousand machine guns, 100 thousand rifles.

Great Britain and France decided to form an expeditionary force for the war with the USSR on the side of Finland. In fact, London and Paris were preparing aggression against the Soviet Union. It did not take place because the war ended on March 13, 1940.
However, London and Paris were not going to be limited to the landing of their troops in the north, in Finland. Great Britain and France in 1939-1940 were actively preparing to jointly strike at the south of the USSR and destroy the Baku oil fields, for this purpose thousands of troops were concentrated in the Middle East - archival documents of Soviet intelligence about this were also previously made public.

[Lemminkäinen]

USSR, of course.
The winter war played a big role for the future of my country - 1) forced training of inexperienced combat and command personnel of the Red Army. 2) In terms of combat readiness, Hitler decided that the USSR was a "colossus with feet of clay", and this greatly brought the beginning of the Great Patriotic War closer.

Spoiler!

The Foreign Intelligence Service told how Britain and France wanted to hit the USSR in 1940.
Great Britain and France at the beginning of 1940 wanted to prolong the Soviet-Finnish war, so that at the right moment, setting their population against the Soviet Union, they would jointly strike at the weakened USSR from Finland, declassified archival documents made public by the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service say this.

https://www.prlib.ru/item/1322852

The publication is dedicated to the 102nd anniversary of the creation of the national foreign intelligence service.

Among these materials is a memo from the 5th Department of the Main Directorate of State Security of the NKVD of the USSR (foreign intelligence) "on intelligence information received from China that Great Britain and France want to wage war against the USSR in Finland, potentially including Germany joining this war. The document was drawn up on March 4, 1940, that is, at the very end of the Soviet-Finnish "winter war".

"France and England very much want the war to continue for a long time in order to weaken the power of the USSR," a source of Soviet intelligence in China reported.

As noted in the document, Britain and France are trying to use the Finnish war "as a pretext for inciting public opinion against the USSR, forcing the Finns to support their government in all activities that are directed against the USSR." According to the source, London and Paris "want to wage war against the USSR on the territory of Finland."

From the very beginning of the "winter war" the West provided Finland with not only diplomatic but also military support. In particular, an international unit almost the size of a division fought on the side of the Finns - about 10 thousand people, formed from Swedes, Norwegians, Danes. Citizens of the USA, Great Britain and Estonia came to Finland. The Finnish side was supplied with 350 combat aircraft, 1.5 thousand artillery pieces of various calibers, 2.5 million shells, 6 thousand machine guns, 100 thousand rifles.

Great Britain and France decided to form an expeditionary force for the war with the USSR on the side of Finland. In fact, London and Paris were preparing aggression against the Soviet Union. It did not take place because the war ended on March 13, 1940.
However, London and Paris were not going to be limited to the landing of their troops in the north, in Finland. Great Britain and France in 1939-1940 were actively preparing to jointly strike at the south of the USSR and destroy the Baku oil fields, for this purpose thousands of troops were concentrated in the Middle East - archival documents of Soviet intelligence about this were also previously made public.

Very interesting. It is well known that UK snd France had plans to support Finland by sending forces, but also that it was Sweden who refused to let western forces to use its ground in moving forces to Finland. It was the situation then, and also now, thus Nato wants also Seedish membership. Russia can now play wisely or not. This is not a secret.

The war was ended "too soon" just because the Finnish government realized that Sweden wouldn't allow this operation. But you maybe right about that also Germany willingly waited for English and France operation in Finland, because Finnish research have found that the Finnish foreign minister was a pro-German person and was in connection with the German administration already before the war. He was not Nazi, but obviously conspired with them and got this minister job after that kind of intrigues just before the war.

[Rumata]

I don't approve that war even though my great grandfather took part in it on the Soviet side.

The grade of hatred in this thread is vomit urging though. Also some of the comments obviously lack reason.

[Rumata]

Yeah, embrace sado maniacs like this Jatuli instead. Or like that cannibal tolerant female poster above.

I'd pick Finland, too many soviets ended up like him..

[Rumata]

For info: Karelia depended on Novgorod before there was Sweden:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-1015-1113.png

[Lemminkäinen]

For info: Karelia depended on Novgorod before there was Sweden:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-1015-1113.png

Karelians were one of Baltic Finnic tribes and was born around 600-700 AD in the time they still spoke "common Finnish". After the founding of Novgorod they step by step joined to the Russian alliance. The conflict between Finns and Karelians was arisen from the schism between two main religions during northern crusades, but naturally there was also secular reasons. However, Karelians living in the Isthmus area kept close connections with Finns through the history.

[Rumata]

Karelians were one of Baltic Finnic tribes and was born around 600-700 AD in the time they still spoke "common Finnish". After the founding of Novgorod they step by step joined to the Russian alliance. The conflict between Finns and Karelians was arisen from the schism between two main religions during northern crusades, but naturally there was also secular reasons. However, Karelians living in the Isthmus area kept close connections with Finns through the history.

The Novgorod republic did include a number of Finnic tribes, not only Karelians.

[Lemminkäinen]

The Novgorod republic did include a number of Finnic tribes, not only Karelians.

Scientifically speaking Finnic means Finnish, Estonian, Karelian, Ingrian, Vepsa, Liv etc languages from the Baltic region. Those belong to the group of Baltic Finnic languages. Earlier Moksha and Erzya were called Volga Finnic languages. I meant Baltic Finnic, not Finno-Ugric languages.

[Rumata]

Scientifically speaking Finnic means Finnish, Estonian, Karelian, Ingrian, Vepsa, Liv etc languages from the Baltic region. Those belong to the group of Baltic Finnic languages. Earlier Moksha and Erzya were called Volga Finnic languages. I meant Baltic Finnic, not Finno-Ugric languages.

Would it be safe to say that about a half of total north western Finnics in XI century were a part of Novgorod state or were related to it? I mean excluding Volga Finnics.