Levantine-Nordid/Nordo-Arabid

[CrinjaNinja]

Just North Pontid.

If you exclude the thick lips and the slightly convex nose, which are typical LN ("Levantine Nordid") traits, then he's absolutely North Pontid. Whether or not the LN page would be added back to the Physical Anthropology Wiki under the supervision of Eorapter360, then I'd always see North Pontid inside of him. Otherwise, if LN exists, then he would be LN with lots of North Pontid predominance.

North Pontid-Orientalid blend.

Apparently there's a hidden phenotype classified under the North Pontid category but those North Pontid subtypes are heavily influenced by Assyroids and are local to the Levant regions. They are known as "Lebanesid" or "Levantid". In this case, the Wolowitz guy would def be classified as "Lebanesid". You are right about the North Pontid + Orientalid blend.

Just Iranid...

What about his pale skin? Could he pass for a paler skinned Iranid while remained a Hasidic Jew? Sure, I'd definitely go with that, if you wouldn't mind.

Just Orientalid with rufosity.

So far out of all the pictures I selected in my previous post of this thread in page 4, this guy seems to be the closest to LN. However, there's another example I found that is even closer to LN because of his pred. Proto Nordic features:

[CrinjaNinja]

As you said, this is just Proto Nordid/Nordid mix with Assyroid, no need to create a new category just to classify it, except political/ideological agenda.

Thank you for replying to my comment filled with a few long paragraphs! I would like to make some corrections to my own comment here regarding the "fake" (but rather hypothetical) Levantine Nordid/Nordo-Semitic/Arabo-Nordid, after I lost a train of thought in the midst of writing this long discussion.

The term itself isn't that fake, to be really honest with you. It's true that Levantine Nordid wasn't ever mentioned in any specific text tied to anthropological literature, but may have an indirect reference in future anthropological texts. It was & is composed of more recent, non-stabilized varieties such as Assyro-Nordids and Arabo-Nordids. I would strongly agree that Levantine Nordids were formed as a historically more recent, but relatively rarer blend type in the present.

Firstly, Levantine Nordids didn't have Assyroid admixture at all! To be pretty damn fair they should be a SPECIFIC form of a Nordid-Orientalid blend, like Irano-Nordids.

Secondly, there were even Assyroids that can have blonde hair and blue eyes due to depigmentation process and/or admixture from Proto Nordids, as mentioned in humanphenotypes.net. I’m not sure if these special kinds of Assyroids were given a single term apart from Syrid, which is Assyroid proper. I’ve even seen Assyroids which superficially resemble Norids or dark blonde Armenoids, and were said to have associations with the Kura-Araxes Transcaucasian culture—the source of Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer genes that arrived into the Levant. The true Assyro-Nordids would be equivalent to the Levant-Fertile Crescent type, not to be confused with the Levantine Nordids, which have pure Proto-Nordic ancestry dipped in rich Orientalid admixture.

Oh, I found a historical connection to this particular phenotype: the Chalcolithic period of the Levant, or just Chalcolithic Israel——this is the source for the blue eyes origin. More information can be found here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05649-9

Anyways, as I said earlier, the Levantine Nordid was also called the Druze type, because the Druze were known to have fair-haired, light-eyed, and light-skinned features for a pretty darn long time. These traits were more common for the Druze back then, prior to Arab conquest.

Just a little side note for y'all: Ethnic Druze people, especially the Israeli Druze, were one of the ethnic groups indigenous to the Levant. Despite being treated as a religion of its own, it had roots from Islam. So, it turns out that the recessive genes appear to be more frequent among the Druze than Assyrians, for instance.

[CrinjaNinja]

Let me reiterate from the top. I meant to say "Iranian Nordoid" instead of "Arin Nordid", because Iranian Nordoid would be a more accurate term for this context than Arin Nordid. Iranian Nordoid, which referred to the Proto Nordids of West Asia, especially the Zagros Mountains, was an umbrella term for both Proto-Nordid and Irano-Nordid, a stabilized blend between Proto Nordid/Corded and Iranid/Irano-CM.

You see, Levantine Nordids and Irano-Nordids are both Nordid-Orientalid blends, and are thus derived from the same branch, that is, the Iranian Nordoid branch of the Proto-Nordid group. The main differences between these two are that Levantine Nordids has less Cromagnid influence due to a western shift from Irano-Nordids, just the same as Danubian Nordids are Corded Nordids shifted to the west and are found sporadically in Western Eurasia. This means that Levantine Nordids on average are significantly more gracile, deriving this trait partially from the Danubian proto-Nordic strain. Yes, they were a historically more recent type found in the Levant as well as Jewish diaspora, but they have become rarer in the present, and are thus sporadically found within individuals.

I would also like to point out that Levantine Nordid =/= Arabo-Nordid (this includes Cappadocian Nordid too, as Cappadocian belongs to the Arabid subrace). 'Arabo-Nordid' is a generic term for a rather recent, non-stabilized blend between Nordid and Arabid (or Arabo-Mediterranean). A similar type other than Levantine Nordid, the East Atlantid type - a former umbrella term for North Pontid, regarded as an eastern version of North Atlantid - can often be confused with Nordo-Arabids. This is because they are a contact type between East Mediterranid and East Nordid, or in other words, the eastern extended Nordo-Mediterraneans as recorded in Coon’s The Races of Ireland. East-Meds often look Arabid instead of European Mediterranids. East Atlantids are more of a stablized blend than Nordo-Arabids, such that they are identified as North Pontids with more Mediterranid (+ Arabid/Cappadocian) admixture. I can't share the full details of the East Atlantid type, since it might be off-topic, so I'll have to make a separate thread and discuss them there instead.

Long story short, Levantine Nordid should be placed along with the Irano-Nordid of the Nordic-Iranian race, a small-faced Iranian-Mediterranean divergence approaching Coon's Cappadocian and Danubian types. In other words, it is part of the western extension of the Iranian Nordoid or Nordic-Iranian race.

Therefore, here’s what I conclude: Levantine Nordid = West Irano-Nordid

Case closed.

[CrinjaNinja]

Anyways, as I said earlier, the Levantine Nordid was also called the Druze type, because the Druze were known to have fair-haired, light-eyed, and light-skinned features for a pretty darn long time. These traits were more common for the Druze back then, prior to Arab conquest.

Just a little side note for y'all: Ethnic Druze people, especially the Israeli Druze, were one of the ethnic groups indigenous to the Levant. Despite being treated as a religion of its own, it had roots from Islam. So, it turns out that the recessive genes appear to be more frequent among the Druze than Assyrians, for instance.

Some correction: I meant to write "Samaritan type" for Levantine Nordid instead of "Druze type". The "Druze type" was almost never mentioned in older anthropology books to match the exact definition of Levantine Nordid.

According to this source I've found from The Races of Europe by Coon, "The modern Samaritans, who are generally supposed to represent the indigenous Palestinian Jewish strain more faithfully than any other, are tall, with a mean stature of 173 cm.,44 and mesocephalic (C. I. = 78), with heads similar in dimensions to both Yemenis and Mesopotamians. Their faces are moderately long (125 mm.), and narrow (132 mm.), while their thin foreheads are of moderate breadth (103 mm.). Their noses are leptorrhine (N. I. 66), and of moderate dimensions. In pigmentation the Samaritans show more than the usual Mediterranean 25 per cent of partial or incipient blondism; out of 35 males, 17, or two-thirds, had black or dark brown head hair, one was blond, and the rest brown. Only 7 (22 per cent) out of 35 had black or dark brown beards, the rest were brown, blond, and red. In eye color, one-third were light or mixed; the rest were equally divided between dark brown and brown."

I'm not sure if the source accurately defines this term 100%. But it's the closest to the definition.

I agree with other people that Levantine Nordid is a relatively stabilized phenotype in Israel. Which is WHY the most perfect article I just found today was related with this phenomena.

[CrinjaNinja]

Is there any real literature on this phenotype? There are anthropological references to an Indo-Nordic type but not Leavatine Nordic.

Definitely for Indo Nordic, but maybe Levantine Nordic? I think I found a source for Levantine Nordid, and it might be this one:

Palestine, Jewish origins, and the eastern Jews

The Levantine Nordic phenotype probably belonged to the Samaritan type, according to the source above.

[Melkiirs]

Definitely for Indo Nordic, but maybe Levantine Nordic? I think I found a source for Levantine Nordid, and it might be this one:

Palestine, Jewish origins, and the eastern Jews

The Levantine Nordic phenotype probably belonged to the Samaritan type, according to the source above.

Regular Samaritans (the priestly Kahins form a very tall and uniformly dark featured isolated sub-group) have a clear elevation in light features for the Levant and a marked prevalence of rufosity but that could be relatively recent for all we know. Remember in the 5th century before the revolts they numbered possibly as high as 1.5 million. Since then there has been repeated bottlenecks that brought down their numbers to around 150 by the turn of the 20th century. Essentially the population was reduced to around 1/10,000th over nearly 15 centuries without intermarriage with other groups. This lead to a compromised genepool where some recessive variants that were once rare in the original population are much more frequent. Facial features are probably still fairly representative of the classical Levant rather than having an apparent Proto-Nordid influence.

[Sacrificed Ram]

As if a Nordid man marries black woman, their children will not be "Nordo-Negroid", an individual case of near eastern person with fair features, would not be enough fact to create a category as "Nordo-Orientalid". It must be a populational phenomenon.

It is more easy to create a category called "Ashkenazid" due the history of formation of eastern european jews. And it doesn't mean only Nordid input...