White Pill: 73% Of 2020 Trump Voters Say Racism Against White Americans Is A Problem

[Tooting Carmen]

It further supports my original statement about diversity, because even in a strict, hierarchical racial system like we used to have, there was still an immense amount of conflict and racial division.

Could it not be that the latter part of the sentence was caused at its least in part by the former?

I mentioned that to show that the Americanness of blacks, whom you regularly refer to as among "the oldest Americans," is definitely up for debate. They were not seen as Americans by even a sizable portion of the population until 1865 and not until much later by all Americans. And to this day, they are a group unto themselves. They have been given a place only through a civil war and a great deal of wrangling, unlike ethnic whites who, at least in theory, were always acceptable and assimilable.

Questioning the Americanness of Blacks is stupid even taken on its own terms. Multi-generational Black Americans belong no more to Angola or Nigeria than multi-generational White Americans belong to England or Germany. (Even less in many ways - unlike most White Americans, who usually have at least a partial idea of where in Europe their ancestors came from, the records of where Blacks were taken from were often not properly kept and their languages and cultures were forced out of them). And regarding your last sentence: I am not sure if he was right, but now-defunct American user KMack used to claim that anti-Catholicism was often a bigger feature of American life than even anti-Blackness, and the idea of a singular unified White identity was pretty hollow for a long time.

[Smitty]

Could it not be that the latter part of the sentence was caused at its least in part by the former?

I don't misdoubt it. But the clarity and simplicity of the system, especially in the antebellum period, should have ameliorated racial animosity to a larger degree, I think. I won't say blacks were happy. (I won't say they were all unhappy, either.) But abolition and civil rights took away the clear-cut, superior-inferior relationship and opened up a host of confusions that can't really be satisfactorily resolved.

Questioning the Americanness of Blacks is stupid even taken on its own terms. Multi-generational Black Americans belong no more to Angola or Nigeria than multi-generational White Americans belong to England or Germany. (Even less in many ways - unlike most White Americans, who usually have at least a partial idea of where in Europe their ancestors came from, the records of where Blacks were taken from were often not properly kept and their languages and cultures were forced out of them).

I never said they were Angolan or Nigerian. That doesn't follow. You consider them indisputably American because, presumably, nationality is just a word for you. German or Egyptian or Vietnamese. It's a club. There are around 200 clubs across the globe, and admission is or ought to be open to anyone. And there's really no difference between the clubs except that one begins with a G and another with a V and one has better dishware and another has better chairs (usually stolen from the other clubs). Or perhaps you'll say that, no, some clubs have the right to exclusivity, but not mine because it didn't start out with the right people or with the right rules or it hasn't been around long enough or it was too exclusive and needs to make up for that. If that doesn't describe your views on nationality, correct me. I'm honestly not sure what you think, but that about sums up most people's views on the subject. And if any little something inside them says that's not quite right, they feel sharp pangs of guilt and tell themselves that that's a little vestige of evil in themselves that needs to be wiped away.

As for blacks in America, history is important. The only reason they're considered Americans today (and I basically consider them such as well, for all intents and purposes) is because we didn't know what to do with them. That, and some people wanted to stick it to the South. Yeah, they're American in the sense that their ethnicity was formed in the United States. But their place in the American national consciousness is a difficult one, both for them and for us. And we still haven't worked out that incompatibility after sixty years of "equality" and 150 years of citizenship. It is absolutely reasonable to question their status as Americans. They and their leftist agitators are still doing so today and never undertook to do so more than when we gave them full, even extra, rights in the 1960s.

But all this is a moot point, water under the bridge. As you said above, and as I never said otherwise, recent Third World immigration is the crisis that's destroying America.

And regarding your last sentence: I am not sure if he was right, but now-defunct American user KMack used to claim that anti-Catholicism was often a bigger feature of American life than even anti-Blackness, and the idea of a singular unified White identity was pretty hollow for a long time.

This is really comparing apples to oranges. If white-black relations were peaceable in areas and at times, it's because it's a very old status quo. Whites, even Southern whites, weren't upset about blacks, whom their ancestors had brought over years before and who had lived alongside them ever since. Anti-Catholic sentiment, however, was a conservative one. It was aggressive because it was a response to change. So to make a fair comparison, we would have to compare anti-Catholic sentiment, especially in the 1850s and early 1900s, to anti-black feeling during Reconstruction and the civil rights movement. And they're not in the same league, in my opinion.