Where do Jews come from?

[Abti]

Bruh.. I think I know who you are. I never said that they were the same people as modern day jews, as if modern day jews can be grouped together as an ethnic group, genetically speaking. I said that Israelites were canaanite migrants to Judean Hills and that's the way it is. The ancestors of Samaritans were coastal canaanites until they migrated further inland, and they settled near mount Gerizim which is their holy place. As you said Samaritans have very little steppe, if any and mizrahis generally don't have much of steppe as well.

That component did not fall in the mesopotamian cluster but rather in some Bronze Age Israeli/Jordanian cluster. And I am not fully aware of the component that we are talking about here. Are you talking about Levant_Ashkelon_LBA? or Megiddo?

I think I know who you are as well… no I’m not talking about Ashkelon & Megiddo. You can’t decipher which part of it is Canaanite or «Israelite» if the idea is that they’re the same, most of the time when Jews encounter populations who converted the input would go from 25-10%. The Hasmonean dynasty started conversions on a massive scale and that is besides individual choice. That is what happened to the Celts, Avars, Berbers, Egyptians, Germans and the Indigenous Canaanites.

I’m talking Iran-Hajji-Firuz & AnatoliaMBA, which has gone unexplained. I’m not fond of utilizing G25 for peoples ethnic origins but back to the basics using formal stats, qpAdm, and history. And also what is cope about them not clustering in the Mesopotamian area? Lol, you agreed to it before. This goes for Iranian & Iraqi jews, Georgian Jews descend from Persian Jews, you would know.

[Abti]

The vast majority of Jews today are not descended primarily from Hebrews, but mostly from Roman era converts.

Yes, there are several examples who’ve converted; Indigenous Canaanites, Celts, Hunnic Avars, Egypto-Berber peoples, Germans, relatively recently.. Slavs based on academic studies. The Original Jews might have been like something we might have never seen before. They may have been European-like or "Euro-adjacent" with plenty of R1-M173.

[Mesoman]

I think I know who you are as well… no I’m not talking about Ashkelon & Megiddo. You can’t decipher which part of it is Canaanite or «Israelite» if the idea is that they’re the same, most of the time when Jews encounter populations who converted the input would go from 25-10%. The Hasmonean dynasty started conversions on a massive scale and that is besides individual choice. That is what happened to the Celts, Avars, Berbers, Egyptians, Germans and the Indigenous Canaanites.

I’m talking Iran-Hajji-Firuz & AnatoliaMBA, which has gone unexplained. I’m not fond of utilizing G25 for peoples ethnic origins but back to the basics using formal stats, qpAdm, and history. And also what is cope about them not clustering in the Mesopotamian area? Lol, you agreed to it before. This goes for Iranian & Iraqi jews, Georgian Jews descend from Persian Jews, you would know.

The thing is that Megiddo and Ashkelon were very similar anyway. And I also was not trying to decipher whether it was canaanite or israelite, etc.

most of the time when Jews encounter populations who converted the input would go from 25-10%.

what did you mean by this part

I’m talking Iran-Hajji-Firuz & AnatoliaMBA, which has gone unexplained.

I am too lazy to model MBA Anatolian and Hajji Firuz samples right now lol, but you can rest assured that MBA Anatolians did not cluster in Mesopotamia.

I’m not fond of utilizing G25 for peoples ethnic origins but back to the basics using formal stats, qpAdm, and history.

History is not the greatest measure to understanding the genetics of people but qpAdm beats G25 of course since the former is a pro tool

And also what is cope about them not clustering in the Mesopotamian area? Lol, you agreed to it before. This goes for Iranian & Iraqi jews, Georgian Jews descend from Persian Jews, you would know.

Not a cope. We were talking about the ghost population from Bronze Age or Early Iron Age which supposedly clustered in Mesopotamia. I never denied that Iraqi, Iranian and Kurdish Jews clustered in Mesopotamia. Btw, Iraqi Jews are not descended from Persian Jews and most Georgian Jews are not descended from persian Jews either. You probably meant Mountain Jews.

[Lobster]

The thing is that Megiddo and Ashkelon were very similar anyway. And I also was not trying to decipher whether it was canaanite or israelite, etc.



what did you mean by this part



I am too lazy to model MBA Anatolian and Hajji Firuz samples right now lol, but you can rest assured that MBA Anatolians did not cluster in Mesopotamia.



History is not the greatest measure to understanding the genetics of people but qpAdm beats G25 of course since the former is a pro tool



Not a cope. We were talking about the ghost population from Bronze Age or Early Iron Age which supposedly clustered in Mesopotamia. I never denied that Iraqi, Iranian and Kurdish Jews clustered in Mesopotamia. Btw, Iraqi Jews are not descended from Persian Jews and most Georgian Jews are not descended from persian Jews either. You probably meant Mountain Jews.

So, I am closer to Mesopotamians and western Iranians than I am to Levantine people? That's kind of sad to me because I like Syria so much, and even used to tell few times that I am Syrian when Canadians ask me about my ancestry.

[Abti]

@Mesoman

I mean that converted populations would usually tribute 1/4 or 1/10 of their ancestry to the Jewish population and the implications for what would it mean for their Levantine ancestry.

And, yes I meant Mountain Jews.

[Mesoman]

So, I am closer to Mesopotamians and western Iranians than I am to Levantine people? That's kind of sad to me because I like Syria so much, and even used to tell few times that I am Syrian when Canadians ask me about my ancestry.

you will most likely plot closer to Levantines than West Iranians but I am almost 100% certain that you will plot closer to Mesopotamians than to Levantines if you are a regular kurdish Jew, Persian Jew or a mix of both.

[Mesoman]

@Mesoman

I mean that converted populations would usually tribute 1/4 or 1/10 of their ancestry to the Jewish population and the implications for what would it mean for their Levantine ancestry.

At that point, you just have to determine somehow how many populations converted to Judaism to have contributed to their genomes because it is crystal clear that Jewish populations are more than 1/4 non-Samaritan like autosomal DNA wise

[Mesoman]

and how can you be sure of that number, like where does it come from

[Lobster]

you will most likely plot closer to Levantines than West Iranians but I am almost 100% certain that you will plot closer to Mesopotamians than to Levantines if you are a regular kurdish Jew, Persian Jew or a mix of both.

That certainly makes sense, keeping in mind that my father's family is originally from the Mosul area (although his grandparents were engaged in trade in Damascus, and his father was also born there), while my mother's parents are originally from Hamadan in western Iran. Thank you!

[Abti]

and how can you be sure of that number, like where does it come from

It’s really in the air and easy to grab. There are legit countless studies.

I recommend viewing the recent genomic study on Erfurt et al Waldeman. As a first.