Third Nagorno-Karabakh War

[rothaer]

This conflict is based on Sowjet times, when non Russian land was divided to the current borders. Armenians brutally and illegally occupied that land during the first war, committed genocide there.

I'll try to enlight that for myself.

I understand the religious reason to support Armenia, but in my opinion this IE argument is illogical.

But I expressly told that this circumstance is irrelevant and does not yield any support.

I mean what I write.

[majevica]

Also Armenians are a good example of language shift, it is proven that early Armenian invaders had their origins from IE homeland, while Armenians seem to be assimilated Urartians and even most probably have some absorbed Semitic Christian substrate, since they are quite Southern shifted for their location. I understand the religious reason to support Armenia, but in my opinion this IE argument is illogical. They are culturally similar to their Southern neighbors, like Russian members said they are even less popular than non IE and Muslim ethnicities.

Ironically, Azeris have more IE ancestry than Armenians

[oszkar07]

Its useless to try to convince somebody whos constanly poisoned by an armenian wife, sorry.

You make a lot of assumption here.but Im not really invested in anyone here's oppinion too much.

I make up my own mind on issues and believe me or not my wife and her family
have overall very little to say about Armenian - Turkish rivalry. Furthermore my wife had a female Turkish friend in a previous job, she does not hold hatred in general towards Turkish individuals. That said, ofc she would see the plight of Armenians in Nagorno Karabagh as sad and unfortunate , ofc she would dissaprove of the Azerbaijan initiated aggression towards Armenians in Karabagh as would any Armenian. But contrary to your assumptions she does not lecture or advise me upon such issues.
In the past I have studied the Armenian genocide and the Nagorno karabagh situation.I could say there has been faults from both sides. In the end I have to say I do lean in favour of supporting the Armenians in this issue, for me at least that does not mean celebrating bloodshed of Azerbaijanis nor does it mean I would have been supportive of any bloody expulsion, massacre or such.

There are plenty examples of situations where a historical population and territory has by the circumstance of geopolitical outcomes ended up being a significant population in a newly aquired state or land that has been given to or become extension of a new state.

We could talk, about Serbs in Kosovo.Russians in the Donbas.Szekely in Erdely.



I don't in general take a stand against Turks or Turkiye, but in the case of "a greater Turan vs and at the expense of Karabagh Armenians and or Armenia proper" my support is with the Ermeniler.

Oszkar is a nice and smart guy, nothing wrong with defending his own family, unlike you he isn’t changing his relationship status constantly with girly slogans, in a forum full of virgins and loser beings.

Sentiments from Turks on this subject for the most part are to be expected. I have said my oppinions and stand by what I said.
As for folk here who just decide to be Armenian haters because they met a few folks driving a better car than them or owning a buisinesss or making too much noise or whatever, I dont have 2 fucks to give about their oppinions either. oppinions are like assholes everyone has one, untill there would a irl threat to family or life sphere to such situation would I have no words and no communication only without words and without theatre would I act and after walk away with complete indifference otherwise its all good for diverse oppines in an internet forum.

[Mejgusu]

…

Even you do it because of your family, there is no reason to involve them. People in this forum cry about disappearing family values but defend people who drag peoples family members through the mire.

[Hektor12]

These policemen were killed during the invasion, not before from what I could gather.

Yeah sure, countries always invade with policemen and construction workers, its not surprising. But whats your source, i want to to see particulars?

[Hektor12]

You make a lot of assumption here.

You think assumptions are legitimate, dont you?

I wouldn't believe they could either.

[oszkar07]

You think assumptions are legitimate, dont you?

It seems the lack of security and safety of Armenians in the region under the powers of Aliyev is pretty legitimate. Aliyev a man who celebrates and turns a national hero of an Azerbaijani man who was responsible for beheading an Armenian who was aleep in a hotel. bed at 3:00am in the morning. What can be expected from such a person.

[Hektor12]

What can be expected from such a person.

You expecting everything from "a person" instead of multilateral treaties, peacekeeping missions and internal law of a legitimate country secures that youre here solely for hampering Azerbaijan side.

[rothaer]

(...)

I saw that there was an Armenien republic von 1918-1920 that comprised a smaller but still notable area of what is today Turkey. I presuppose there lived a lot of Armenians. What happened to them after the end of that republic? Do they still live there? (The massacres on Armenians in Turkey were abt. 1915/1916, so they can not be related to that. They maybe not even took place in that area even at that time, considering that it became part of the Armenian republic.)

Can you tell what's the Turkish point of view, what is the difference between (Anatolian) Turks and Azeri Turks? Are the languages that similar that they are mutually intelligible?

[Mejgusu]

I saw that there was an Armenien republic von 1918-1920 that comprised a smaller but still notable area of what is today Turkey. I presuppose there lived a lot of Armenians. What happened to them after the end of that republic? Do they still live there? (The massacres on Armenians in Turkey were abt. 1915/1916, so they can not be related to that. They maybe not even took place in that area even at that time, considering that it became part of the Armenian republic.)

Can you tell what's the Turkish point of view, what is the difference between (Anatolian) Turks and Azeri Turks? Are the languages that similar that they are mutually intelligible?

East Anatolia was always multiethnical, I think you mean first Armenian republic which jist includes very small parts of historical Armenian homeland. On the other hand it includes a lot Muslim, especially Turkish and some Kurdish settlements which were a hige minorty back then there. Therefore or everyone was Armenian there, the population was not even 2 Milliom and 30-40% of it wasn’t Armenian.

Anatolian and Azerbaijani, or better Iranian Turks are comparable with Germans and Austrians, biggest enemies, different group of same religion(Shia-Sunna) etc. They are each other’s counterparts, Anatolian Turks emerged from Anatolian-Turkmen intermarriages, Iranian Turks from Iranian-Turkmen intermarriages. It also seems to be that Iranian Turks have Anatolian substrate, which shows that while the ethnogenesis of Anatolian Turks wasn’t completed yet, due religious and political rivalry a confederation of tribes called Qizilbash, an ethnoreligious group of Turkmen tribes(who lived in Central/Eastern Anatolia and Syria/Iraq), a Shia-pagan(Tengrist) sect, went to Iran and settled there, completed Turkification of many parts of Persia. They ruled Persian military until early 20st century. While Anatolian Turks became heirs of Roman/Byzantine empire, Iranian Turks became heirs of Persians and therefore rivalry became a fundamental part of their identity, until nationalism emerged and both Turkish groups rediscovered their connection to each other. When Russians annexed Azerbaijan, they called them Tatars, but they were afraid of Turkish nationalism there, so they started calling them Azeri. Azerbaijanis are more secular and more nationalist than Turks are, they are probably the only example of people of former Soviet Union where Russians did a good job regarding cultural education. During the first war in Karabagh, Turkiye was ruled by an Islamist, and Azerbaijan by a nationalist politician. Therefore Turkiye wasn’t really interested in Azerbaijan, a Shia state, and they lost the war against Armenia. Times changed, Erdogan is dependent on nationalist voters. Helping Azerbaijan to taking back Karabag makes him popular and make people forget miserabel conditions in Turkiye considering Turkish opposition wouldn’t be that helpful for Azerbaijan. That was a short summary of everything about Turks, Azeris and Karabag, not very academic but I would say very accurate.