Estado Novo vs Third Reich

[Sebastianus Rex]

OK what about the Estado Novo compared to Fascist Italy then, both domestically and internationally? (Incidentally, Mussolini's invasion of Abysinnia was even more brutal than Salazar's attempt to maintain the five colonies).



Is that meant to be a compliment or a criticism?

That prick Salazar had a picture of Mussolini on his work desk...must have been inspired by Il Duce african incursions. He never even had the balls to visit personally the colonies, just sent young men to die there or to become mutilated for life.



2. I meant it as criticism, social mobility was almost non existant, that's why so many emigrated during his backwards regime, to escape a life of misery.

[Tooting Carmen]

That prick Salazar had a picture of Mussolini on his work desk...must have been inspired by Il Duce african incursions. He never even had the balls to visit personally the colonies, just sent young men to die there or to become mutilated for life.



2. I meant it as criticism, social mobility was almost non existant, that's why so many emigrated during his backwards regime, to escape a life of misery.

OK, it is true that Portugal under him remained much less industrialised than Northern Europe and North America and salaries were still much lower, but weren't there real socioeconomic improvements during his regime too, especially the massive reduction in illiteracy, which before he came along was at 75%? More generally, much like I argued in another thread that, in many ways, it was Eastern Europe's poverty compared to Western Europe that made it Communist rather than the other way round, in a similar way could it not be argued that Fascism was more a consequence than a cause of the poverty that characterised Portugal (and Spain and Italy) compared to other parts of the West? Because the point is that those countries were certainly no paradises of milk and honey before the dictatorships came along.

[Tooting Carmen]

N.B. This is the thread I meant: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...se-of-the-West

[Fortnite777]

I don't consider the Estado Novo or the Francoists to be Fascist. They're just reactionary authoritarians. There is an inherently progressive and somewhat secular aspect to Fascism which may be reflected in Primo De Rivera, but not really in Franco. Although I don't consider myself an adherent to any particular ideology, I very much enjoy this futurism of Fascism.

[Incal]

(1) While "wokeness" can indeed be authoritarian and intolerant, it is hardly the same as the horrific ideologies of the 20th century like Communism, Nazism, Fascism or even (blasphemy to some on this forum) Apartheid and Jim Crow.

Give it time.

[Sebastianus Rex]

OK, it is true that Portugal under him remained much less industrialised than Northern Europe and North America and salaries were still much lower, but weren't there real socioeconomic improvements during his regime too, especially the massive reduction in illiteracy, which before he came along was at 75%? More generally, much like I argued in another thread that, in many ways, it was Eastern Europe's poverty compared to Western Europe that made it Communist rather than the other way round, in a similar way could it not be argued that Fascism was more a consequence than a cause of the poverty that characterised Portugal (and Spain and Italy) compared to other parts of the West? Because the point is that those countries were certainly no paradises of milk and honey before the dictatorships came along.

Like I wrote before, the Estado Novo was important to stabilise the chaotic state of the country and did well until the end of WW2, if Salazar had left and prepared the country for a democratic transition during the 1950's there would be statues of him everywhere, but he decided to follow the opposite path of isolation, colonialism, repression of civil and economic freedoms.