Celto-Germanic vs Balto-Slavic vs Celto-Romance vs Indo-Iranic

[thatoneton]

According to a Pole, if you're not at least 30% German-admixed like them, you're supposedly a ''Byzantine''.

This is so funny. As if we cared about it. Also most Poles are not "30% German-admixed" including in fact the one that you posted.

Byzantine means Orthodox-descended which is how this bizarre (for the modern times) grouping of different states was represented, namely here:

with a Russian orthodox church - as if this had anything to do with us.

[rothaer]

You must have misunderstood something. New Polish settlers were not allowed to move to Kraków after the Mongol's raids devastated much of Poland in the 13th century so as to not "empty" the lands around the city. The Poles lived there already for 500 years and were both present in the city at the time and after the ban was lifted.

Poles were not part of the new founded entity city of Krakau in 1257 and it's this entity that caused the buildings shown by you. After the lift of the mentioned ban they were allowed but still did not much become citizens for a pretty long time respectively just in small numbers. The entity of the city of Krakau continued to be an ethnic German entity also after the ban. Till it eventually became Polonised, ofc.

This is another example of a German's misrepresentation of Poland's past. No big city in Poland was "at its foundation" German, but if anything became so after many centuries of existence. Such was the case of Wrocław and Gdańsk which belonged to Poland since the 10th century, and Kraków, Poznań etc. The German merchants and artisans were brought to Poland especially after the Mongol devastation and peasant settlers to fill in the empty lands. This also happened after the Danish raids devastated Western Pomerania.

You seem to confuse a political entity of a city with a city that just means a bigger settlement. The latter were often existing for very long. But this is not the topic we talk about. We talk about who erected the buildings you showed. And they were erected by the political entity of the city if it were public buildings, by the entity of the church if it were churches and the private houses within the town walls were erected by it's burghers, the members of the political entity of the city. Now, this latter was founded or re-founded along some right, f. i. Magdeburg right and then it had to be determined who became a burgher and who not. And in this context not just the administrational language was German regarding the cities we speak of here but also the burghers / citizens were widely Germans. As for Breslau I have myslef been into genealogical books for all known citizen families in Breslau which goes back till abt. 1500 and out of some 200 families only one had a Polish sounding name. So whatever was before, after these cities were re-founded as entities in the Middle Ages their citizens were almost exclusively German.

Both became German majority only after centuries of being Polish

This will be correct for the early populations of these places (at Danzig were no Poles but Slavic Pomeranians / Kashubs, which are assigned differently linguistically) but not for the citizens of these new entities. Also, the time before the 12th century that this applies to is not in a single case the time when any of the showed buildings were erected. (Btw. the Germanisations you refer to imply that the only descendants of those Slavs you refer to are the Germans. Just to keep it in mind.)

and both had a Polish population until the 20th century (which was however a minority at the time).

Excatly like Hamburg or Berlin, so completely irrelevant in this context. It's an intentional confusion to at all mention this as if it would have any relevance.

BTW Both Berlin and Lubeka are areas of German settlement in the Lechitic lands, and both are not even Germanic names.

Yes, exactly. This is how the various Eastern German so called New tribes like Mecklenburgians, Pomeranians, Brandenburgians etc, emerged (by an amalgamation of these Lechitic tribes and Old-German settlers).

These people are what is called Germans.

[Voskos]

This is so funny. As if we cared about it. Also most Poles are not "30% German-admixed" including in fact the one that you posted.

Byzantine means Orthodox-descended which is how this bizarre (for the modern times) grouping of different states was represented
with a Russian orthodox church - as if this had anything to do with us.

you are bother more by a single picture of a russian building than 30 whole percentage points of German ancestry. This is insanity.

[rothaer]

This is so funny. As if we cared about it. Also most Poles are not "30% German-admixed" including in fact the one that you posted.

Byzantine means Orthodox-descended which is how this bizarre (for the modern times) grouping of different states was represented, namely here:

with a Russian orthodox church - as if this had anything to do with us.

Not this pic again. It has the charme of a German WWII bunker (Luftschutzbunker) with some installed oversized ventilation constructions.

[thatoneton]

Poles were not part of the new founded entity city of Krakau in 1257 and it's this entity that caused the buildings shown by you. After the lift of the mentioned ban they were allowed but still did not much become citizens fo a pretty long time respectively just in small numbers. The entity of the city of Krakau continued to be an ethnic German entity also after the ban. Till it eventually became Polonised, ofc.

You seem to confuse a political entity of a city with a city that just means a bigger settlement. The latter were often existing for very long. But this is not the topic we talk about. We talk about who erected the buildings you showed. And they were erected by the political entity of the city if it were public buildings, by the entity of the church if it were churches and the private houses within the town walls were erected by it's burghers, the members of the political entity of the city. Now, this latter was founded or re-founded along some right, f. i. Magdeburg right and then it had to be determined who became a burgher and who not. And in this context not just the administrational language was German regarding the cities we speak of here but also the burghers / citizens were widely Germans. As for Breslau I have myslef been into genealogical books for all known citizen families in Breslau which goes back till abt. 1500 and out of some 200 families only one had a Polish sounding name. So whatever was before, after these cities were re-founded as entities in the Middle Ages their citizens were almost exclusively German.

All it stands for is that during the late Medieval Times some cities in Poland - which at the time were very small - had a German majority, which later typically got Polonized. The Poles lived both within those cities and in the countryside, even if they were not officially considered their "citizens".

This will be correct for the early populations of these places (at Danzig were no Poles but Slavic Pomeranians / Kashubs, which are assigned differently linguistically)

And this says a German nationalist who claims that everyone from the Netherlands to Austria is German?
My friend, unlike the Bavarians who fought not to be included into Germany and had a strong independence movement, and who according to modern classification have their own language (Bavarian), and unlike the Saxonians who always spoke a different language (Saxon/Low German), not mentioning Alemannic etc. Kashubians/Pomeranians are a subgroup of Poles who have always considered themselves Polish. They always voted for the Polish Party in the German Empire elections and later when they were (against their will) included into the Free City of Gdańsk and to this day almost everyone there considers themselves Polish.


It seems you chooses whichever approach suits you.

but not for the citizens of these new entities. Also, the time before the 12th century that this applies to is not in a single case the time when any of the showed buildings were erected.

Not 12th but 13th century.

(Btw. the Germanisations you refer to imply that the only descendants of those Slavs you refer to are the Germans. Just to keep it in mind.)

Only if you exclude the possibility that some others were not Germanized and that those Germanized stayed like this ever since.

Excatly like Hamburg or Berlin, so completely irrelevant in this context. It's an intentional confusion to at all mention this as if it would have any relevance.

It's about as irrelevant as the fact that Germans lived in Poland before 1945 if they are not to be found there now.

Yes, exactly. This is how the various Eastern German so called New tribes like Mecklenburgians, Pomeranians, Brandenburgians etc, emerged (by an amalgamation of these Lechitic tribes and Old-German settlers).

BTW do you know what Lechitic means? It's a Medieval Greek (Byzantine) name for the Poles. Also you're right that these are not the original German tribes, as those lived to the West of the Elbe and Saale.

[thatoneton]

you are bother more by a single picture of a russian building than 30 whole percentage points of German ancestry. This is insanity.

How can a Russian be angry about someone having a significant admixture if Russians are 1/4th Finno-Ugric not counting other admix?

[Voskos]

How can a Russian be angry about someone having a significant admixture if Russians are 1/4th Finno-Ugric not counting other admix?

I wasn't angry. I accepted you as who you are. You're my Polish friend from Niemcy.

I swore to our slavic brotherhood. It is now eternal.

[Creoda]

Wrong. Both Celto-Germanic and Italo-Celtic are language terms coined by linguists in the 19th Century. The same with Balto-Slavic and Celto-Romance, Indo-Iranic. If you don't want to use that terminology then don't use any of them. What term would you use then to include countries like the US, Australia etc? Canada could also be included in the Celto-Romance category due to French influence.

Never ceases to be amazing the ridiculous things people say on this forum (not you), in almost every thread. Celto-Germanic is the best way in this context to describe the people, not the culture, of most of Northwest Europe and their descendants overseas: England, Netherlands, Belgium, (West) Germany, Switzerland, Northern France, Austria, Iceland and arguably Scotland are all characterised by being a mixture of ancient Celtic and Germanic peoples, not purely Celtic or Germanic. Meanwhile the so-called Celtic nations speak a Germanic language, as well as having notable Germanic ancestry, and the purest Germanic countries of Scandinavia have 10-25% ancient Insular Celtic ancestry.

[Abti]

Celto-Germanic: Barbarian neighbors next door.

Balto-Slavic: Very barbarian neighbors next door.

Indo-Iranic: relegated to… middle class at best in the caste system.

Celto-Romance: what’s the worse that can happen? You get crucified for being the king of the Jews.

Verdict: Celto-Romance

[Vjatych]

How can a Russian be angry about someone having a significant admixture if Russians are 1/4th Finno-Ugric not counting other admix?

What are the "other admixtures"? Mongols or Aborigines of Australia? What admixture will the Pole come up with for us?