Alternative history: Hitler killed in March 1944

[rothaer]

Alternative history: Hitler killed in March 1944

What would have happened if Hitler would have become killed as late as in March 1944 (so neatly before the Stauffenberg assault and also before the D-day) and a new Stauffenberg-like government would have carried out these measures:

- Evacuation of German troops from all occupied territories since November 1938 except Danzig and concentrating these still gigantic armies in the German Empire for ultimate defence.

- Quick re-establishment of interwar Poland and handing over the government to the exile government in London.

- Handing over the government of France to the Vichy government.

Couldn't the German Empire have survived even in its last accepted borders as a Großdeutschland?

Would the Western Allies against the wish of the already liberated Vichy France bring war into that country and maybe even fight against their soldiers and sacrifice hundreds of thousands of own dead just for crushing the German Empire that has a non-Hitler government and that now just wants to defend itself?

Would the Soviet Union attack interwar Poland with the non-communist government for then sacrifice millions of dead own soldiers just for crushing the German Empire that has a non-Hitler government and that now just wants to defend itself?

[Blondie]

There is no such thing that you start a war and in the middle of the conflict you say: "sorry guys im off". The soviet + american victory would have been more quickly and easier if the Wehrmacht leaves the occupied territories.

"Couldn't the German Empire have survived even in its last accepted borders as a Großdeutschland?"
No, its imposible. How? After the death camps and the ruined Europe? Nope, Germany was over. Stauffenberg and his band were traitors. Hitler was right when he said germans must fight until the last man and ammunition. It was the right and only way.
The problem is the biggest part of german army have fought against the soviets. Nowadays its pretty clear that it was a serious mistake. The soviet occupation was worse in short term, but the american occupation destroyed the german soul forever. You can see this mental decay everywhere: migrants, multicultural state, mosques, rainbow flag on the Reichstag, brainwashed self-hater germans, Germany is still not independent. These are all result of american occupation. Soviets destroyed the german cities, the cities can be rebuild anytime, but destroying the soul of a nation is a more serious wound.

If soviets occupy complete Germany, then now Germany would be much poorer, it means there is no welfare state, there are no migrants, vermins. Commies opressed the national feelings so every single post communist country became nationalist after the fall of communism, so Germany would be very patriotic now like Poland or Hungary.

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

I wonder how historians will look upon The Nazis and Hitler a thousand years from now

We're still too close in time to have an objective view

Even though our grandparents fought in that war, the true events that caused the war and happened in it have been very distorted

[Blondie]

I wonder how historians will look upon The Nazis and Hitler a thousand years from now

We're still too close in time to have an objective view

Even though our grandparents fought in that war, the true events that caused the war and happened in it have been very distorted

Now Hitler would be the greatest german if he did not start the WW2.

[Dušan]

Alternative history: Hitler killed in March 1944

Couldn't the German Empire have survived even in its last accepted borders as a Großdeutschland?

Millions of Slavic people were killed until March 1944. so Germany would most likely loose some teritories in East in any case.

[rothaer]

There is no such thing that you start a war and in the middle of the conflict you say: "sorry guys im off". The soviet + american victory would have been more quickly and easier if the Wehrmacht leaves the occupied territories.

"Couldn't the German Empire have survived even in its last accepted borders as a Großdeutschland?"
No, its imposible. How? After the death camps and the ruined Europe? Nope, Germany was over. Stauffenberg and his band were traitors. Hitler was right when he said germans must fight until the last man and ammunition. It was the right and only way.
The problem is the biggest part of german army have fought against the soviets. Nowadays its pretty clear that it was a serious mistake. The soviet occupation was worse in short term, but the american occupation destroyed the german soul forever. You can see this mental decay everywhere: migrants, multicultural state, mosques, rainbow flag on the Reichstag, brainwashed self-hater germans, Germany is still not independent. These are all result of american occupation. Soviets destroyed the german cities, the cities can be rebuild anytime, but destroying the soul of a nation is a more serious wound.

If soviets occupy complete Germany, then now Germany would be much poorer, it means there is no welfare state, there are no migrants, vermins. Commies opressed the national feelings so every single post communist country became nationalist after the fall of communism, so Germany would be very patriotic now like Poland or Hungary.

The bold sentence is the only one that at all deals elaboratively with my question.

How should the Allies at all reach Germany if there are already liberated states in between that don't want or need any war and destruciton in their countries? The Polish Armia Krajowa would not have tried to prevent the Russians from coming but agreed to that in spite of that the whole of Poland was freed already? At the time referred to is stated that not even half of all WWII casualties had been.

As for the warfare, Germany would have had much more fuel for for all military vehicles as they would not have advance and retreat much when they are positioned in ther more or less final combat position. They would have been evacuated by rail. In the war, as it was, they were all driving back on their own, step by step, and consuming much bigger amounts of fuel. Also, both the supply and the morals of the German troops would have been higher when directly defending their home land. This became visible when the Red army came to the borders of the Reich. And the respective for Russian soldiers; when fighting in Russia they were all very much motivated by liberating their tormented by the German occupation compatriots. All this motivation would then not have been. They would have faced the gigantic German armies at the the border of the German Empire long after all of their own country already was liberated. Not very inspiring for "starting" WWII casualties part 2.

It's not about if anyone would have agreed to this. It's about if the Allies would have sacrificed kind of 10 million people for... yeah, for what excatly? Just for imposing reparations? Or for conquering territory that then if handed over to Poland?

The front lines per 1st of March 1944 are visible here:

[Peterski]

At the time referred to is stated that not even half of all WWII casualties had been.

Are you sure? For example how many Jews were still alive in March 1944?

[rothaer]

Are you sure? For example how many Jews were still alive in March 1944?

I don't know. I guess half of the 6 million. But as that was not much a sacrifice of the Allies I don't think that that question was important for what we speak of here. Winston Churchill does not even mention the holocaust in his huge work The Second World War.

[Blondie]

The bold sentence is the only one that at all deals elaboratively with my question.

How should the Allies at all reach Germany if there are already liberated states in between that don't want or need any war and destruciton in their countries? The Polish Armia Krajowa would not have tried to prevent the Russians from coming but agreed to that inspite of that the whole of Poland was freed already? At the time referred to is stated that not even half of all WWII casualties had been.

As for the warfare, Germany would have had much more fuel for for all military vehicles as they would not have advance and retreat much when they are positioned in ther more or less final combat position. They would have been evacuated by rail. In the war, as it was, they were all driving back on their own, step by step, and consuming much bigger amounts of fuel. Also, both the supply and the morals of the German troops would have been higher when directly defending their home land. This became visible when the Red army came to the borders of the Reich. And the respective for Russian soldiers; when fighting in Russia they were all very much motivated by liberating their tormented by the German occupation compatriots. All this motivation would then not have been. They would have faced the gigantic German armies at the the border of the German Empire long after all of their own country already was liberated. Not very inspiring for "starting" WWII casualties part 2.

No, pls... you write completely nonsense things.
Check what german soldiers did in the Soviet Union. It was pure cruelty. Indeed soviets were motivated by defending their home, but they also wanted revenge on germans and on the german cities, lands. Do you really think they would stop behind the polish borders if the Wehrmacht leaves Poland. Do you really think that? And not just the soviets wanted revenge but poles, english, french too. They would not have stopped, its a fantasy.

I dont see "gigantic German armies" either in 1944. But there were gigantic soviet, british and american forces. Accept the reality: even the Großdeutschland was not enough to fight against the whole world.

[rothaer]

(...)

Can you elaborate what the new Polish government likely would have done when the Red army had approached?

EDIT: Presuppose that essentially all ethnic Germans would have left the interwar Poland area in that context.