A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations

**Leto** · 12-07-2023, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Scarface F

Depends what samples were used as Slavic. I suspect something resembling modern Poles, Slovaks and Ukrainians which wouldn't be pure Slavic actually but maybe Slavs who came to Balkans looked like that.

If I use only very NE Euro Slavic samples, most mainland Greeks and Albanians would be between 20-30% if I am not mistaken.

We need to see those 9th century Slovak samples. If they are not Slavic enough, I don't know what is then. They lived before Russia or Poland were even founded as states.

**~~Scarface F~~** · 12-07-2023, 08:15 PM

Greeks in deep Mani are least Slavic Balkanites, but even they have some minor Slavic ancestry.

**Creoda** · 12-07-2023, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Scarface F

Depends what samples were used as Slavic. I suspect something resembling modern Poles, Slovaks and Ukrainians which wouldn't be pure Slavic actually but maybe Slavs who came to Balkans looked like that.

If I use only very NE Euro Slavic samples, most mainland Greeks and Albanians would be between 20-30% if I am not mistaken. Some northernmost Greeks more than that, those that belong to recently hellenized Bulgarian communities.

Even as Ukrainians, Poles or Slovaks that's a massive percentage and turnover. And by the time they reached Greece could they have been South Slavic-like? That would be over 50% you'd think.

**~~Scarface F~~** · 12-07-2023, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

We need to see those 9th century Slovak samples. If they are not Slavic enough, I don't know what is then. They lived before Russia or Poland were even founded as states.

here is medieval Czech sample, this is early Slavic profile IMO:

Distance to: Czech_Medieval:I20515

0.03034294 Belarusian
0.03046002 Lithuanian_PA
0.03098677 Lithuanian_VA
0.03164812 Russian_Smolensk
0.03206577 Russian_Pskov
0.03283305 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.03326725 Lithuanian_RA
0.03377611 Lithuanian_VZ
0.03378121 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03403008 Ukrainian_Chernihiv

**~~Scarface F~~** · 12-07-2023, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Creoda

Even as Ukrainians, Poles or Slovaks that's a massive percentage and turnover.

True, absolutely massive turnover which obviously happened, historical sources say even Peloponese was overran by Slavs. Southern Albania was full of Slavic tononyms. Btw, paper also mentiones very significant shift towards Anatolia in Roman Age, with over 20% turnover in genetics on average from native Balkan profile towards East Med.

I think that's reason why Balkan Slavs are realatively dark pigmented despite having very significant Slavic ancestry, more than anyone expected before era of population genetics.

And by the time they reached Greece could they have been South Slavic-like? That would be over 50% you'd think.

I think by time they reached Greece they were still very Slavic, but maybe not entirely. We have one Byzantine Slavic sample from Turkey where many Slavs were expelled and he clusters with western Ukrainians.

**Ajeje Brazorf** · 12-07-2023, 09:07 PM

We were Romans and stuff

I15499 (Viminacium Pirivoj) could be modeled using only ancient East African populations, supporting an East African ancestral origin and agreeing with his uniparental markers mtDNA L2a1j and Y chromosome E1b-V32, both common in East Africa today. The individual of East African ancestry was buried with an oil lamp depicting Jupiter-related eagle iconography, not a common finding in Viminacium graves. Isotopic analysis of tooth roots showed that he was also an outlier with respect to dietary habits during childhood, with elevated d15 N and d13C values indicating the likely consumption of marine protein sources, unlike individuals from Pirivoj and other necropolises whose values were similar to the Roman-Period population from Sirmium and consistent with a largely C3-based diet with a significant portion of animal protein consumption. Thus, he likely spent his early years elsewhere, possibly in East Africa, the land of his ancestors, and although we will never know his whole life story, whether as a soldier, slave, merchant, or migrant, it encompassed a long journey that ended with his death in adolescence on the northern frontiers of the Roman Empire.