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Thread: Greek Hierachs reject Sodomy and Same Sex marriage

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    Default Greek Hierachs reject Sodomy and Same Sex marriage



    STATEMENT

    1. The Church’s theology on marriage stems from the Holy Scripture, the teachings of the Church Fathers, and the arrangement of the Mystery of Marriage, clearly reflected in the service of this Mystery.

    The purpose of Christian marriage is to create good companionship and family, develop children as fruits of the love of the two spouses in Christ, and their connection to ecclesiastical life.

    The Church accepts for the relationship of man-woman and children that:

    a) the duality of the genders and their complementarity are not social inventions but are from God (...and God made man in His image, male and female He created them. And God blessed them, saying: Be fruitful and multiply..., Gen. 1:27-28)

    b) the sanctity of the union of man and woman refers to the relationship of Christ and the Church (...he who loves his wife loves himself... This mystery is great, but I speak concerning Christ and the Church, Eph. 5:28)

    c) Christian marriage is not just a living arrangement but a Holy Mystery, through which God’s grace is provided to the communion of man and woman with the goal of their joint path to deification—and this blessed journey concerns all couples with or without children

    d) father and mother are integral elements of a child’s and an adult’s life (Honor thy father and thy mother, Ex. 20, 12).

    2. Clearly, the state legislates, but this parameter neither deprives the Church of freedom of speech nor exempts the Church from the duty to inform the faithful nor can dictate what constitutes sin. The Church does not legislate and is not responsible for the laws. If it remains silent, however, it bears a heavy responsibility and negates itself.

    3. Since 2015, the cohabitation agreement provides same-sex couples with all the rights and possibilities of marriage, with the main exception of the ability to have children through adoption or surrogacy.

    The slogan “equality in marriage” aims at one goal, the acquisition of children by “same-sex couples.”

    4. It was announced that “same-sex marriage” and “same-sex parenthood” will be allowed through adoption and (via various means) through surrogacy.

    The initiators of the bill and its supporters promote the abolition of paternity and maternity and their conversion into neutral parenthood, the disappearance of the roles of the two genders within the family, and prioritize the sexual choices of homosexual adults over the interests of future children.

    Based on the bill, homosexual single parents will be able to impose their partner as “father 2” or “mother 2” on their child.

    5. This legislative initiative condemns future children to grow up without a father or mother in an environment of confusion of parental roles.

    The single-parent family is a different case. It causes the absence of one parent but not confusion of parental roles.

    On the contrary, homosexual cohabitation causes both. Additionally, these children often will not have the opportunity to know their other biological parent.

    They will also not experience the presence of the opposite gender (opposite of their “same-sex parents”) within a heterosexual relationship.

    Children with fathers 1 and 2 or mothers 1 and 2 (or more) will be the victims of an unnatural mechanism of parenthood.

    6. It was made public that: a) “same-sex couples” will be allowed joint adoption and adoption by the “same-sex spouse” of the parent (this will also apply to current children from surrogacy), b) surrogacy for a “same-sex couple” will not be allowed in Greece, but it will be recognized if done legally in another country.

    These regulations will be incentives for the exploitation of vulnerable women.

    If these aforementioned apply, it is a bill full of contradictions and ways to bypass its prohibitions (through pregnancies abroad) and Greece is likely to be condemned by the European Court of Human Rights for discrimination, thus the country will be forced to legislate surrogacy on its territory.

    7. The bill not only abolishes bioethical rules, Christian values, and the Greek family tradition but also overturns the rights of future children and the roles of the genders as elements of social cohesion – and this concerns everyone, even if they do not accept Christian ethics.

    The unanswered question is ultimately: What is the real reason for this decision that completely and radically changes the institution of marriage and the status of the parent, and why is it being promoted so persistently?

    8. The Church of Greece recognizes only the Holy Mystery of Christian marriage and rejects civil marriage regardless of gender.

    In this case, it stands against the civil marriage of “same-sex couples” for the additional reason that it inevitably leads to “same-sex parenthood” through adoption or surrogacy.

    This legislation conflicts both with Christian anthropology and the duty of society to ensure the welfare and proper upbringing of children, but also with the rights of children to have paternal and maternal presence and care.

    For all these reasons, and with a sense of pastoral responsibility and love, our Holy Church is categorically opposed to the proposed bill.

    9. The Holy Synod of the Hierarchy decided: a) to draft a relevant letter with its positions to the honorable members of the Greek Parliament, b) to announce its position in the holy churches on Sunday, February 4, 2024, and to make available a related pamphlet “To the People” through the holy churches and its website, c) to authorize each Metropolitan to proceed, within his diocese and according to his prudent pastoral judgment, with initiatives to inform and sensitize regarding the impending legislation and the institution of the family.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    The only thing that matters in a Greek Christian life

    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    I don't know about Greece, but in Romania there have been many rumours and even confirmed facts of homosexuality among some monks, including high and top officials of the Romanian Orthodox Church. so it's somehow funny they oppose same-sex relationships while indulging into same-sex sexual stuff. also, in the older writings, like from 19th century, Greek monks are stereotyped as homosexual in various Romanian writings, also saying they brought these practices to Romanian monks. I am curious if in Greece there's any jokes around the subject - in Romania there are, specifically around monks, not priests. the Orthodox priests are famed on the contrary for loving women a bit too much, like in having lovers and hitting on their parishioners. of course, that's the stereotype, it doesn't mean all of them or a majority of them or even a relevant percentage do it, but that's the stereotype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    I don't know about Greece, but in Romania there have been many rumours and even confirmed facts of homosexuality among some monks, including high and top officials of the Romanian Orthodox Church. so it's somehow funny they oppose same-sex relationships while indulging into same-sex sexual stuff. also, in the older writings, like from 19th century, Greek monks are stereotyped as homosexual in various Romanian writings, also saying they brought these practices to Romanian monks. I am curious if in Greece there's any jokes around the subject - in Romania there are, specifically around monks, not priests. the Orthodox priests are famed on the contrary for loving women a bit too much, like in having lovers and hitting on their parishioners. of course, that's the stereotype, it doesn't mean all of them or a majority of them or even a relevant percentage do it, but that's the stereotype
    Then they're not monks - no monk is ever tempted in anything material - like ever. These are all silly stories by the secularists to discredit what is really pure to the soul... Satans little helpers.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    Well done, Greek Hierarchs
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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    Then they're not monks - no monk is ever tempted in anything material - like ever. These are all silly stories by the secularists to discredit what is really pure to the soul... Satans little helpers.
    no, those writings are from early 19th century on, and done in a tolerating manner, with a fun aspect to it as well, so it's not like accusing them for it, it's just named. what survived is a popular stereotype. I also know of some such stuff from people I know - a former schoolmate of my mom's, who's a priest, had to change church because he was chased by the chief of the monastery (starets) while the starets was drunk, and was screaming after him "te prind si te fut eu" ("I'll catch and fuck you"). he went very private about the episode and the church moved him in change of his silence but also mentioning they don't believe him, so they would not acknowledge something like that, he was ok with the move so he wasn't interested in publicizing it. another priest that is a folk music singer as well and very well known for 30 years now has recently been charged for asking a teenage boy show him his penis, the boy recorded him. video clips of gay orgies in the Bucharest Orthodox Faculty dorms leaked as well some years ago and are on the internet, it's many examples over the years from Romania, so I am curious if any case like this got to national media coverage in Greece - and if it didn't, do you think the authorities are protecting the Church from this in Greece or it just doesn't happen?

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    oh, and let me mention this, since it's funny/cringe: a bad joke but a popular one in Romania says that at least our (Orthodox) monks fuck each other's ass and not kids, like the Catholic priests (actually the word used is something like Papist, „papistași”, which is pejorative for Catholics)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    no, those writings are from early 19th century on, and done in a tolerating manner, with a fun aspect to it as well, so it's not like accusing them for it, it's just named. what survived is a popular stereotype. I also know of some such stuff from people I know - a former schoolmate of my mom's, who's a priest, had to change church because he was chased by the chief of the monastery (starets) while the starets was drunk, and was screaming after him "te prind si te fut eu" ("I'll catch and fuck you"). he went very private about the episode and the church moved him in change of his silence but also mentioning they don't believe him, so they would not acknowledge something like that, he was ok with the move so he wasn't interested in publicizing it. another priest that is a folk music singer as well and very well known for 30 years now has recently been charged for asking a teenage boy show him his penis, the boy recorded him. video clips of gay orgies in the Bucharest Orthodox Faculty dorms leaked as well some years ago and are on the internet, it's many examples over the years from Romania, so I am curious if any case like this got to national media coverage in Greece - and if it didn't, do you think the authorities are protecting the Church from this in Greece or it just doesn't happen?
    Fantasies polluted by morbid imaginations - this is not how monks work. Otherwise they are simply not monks.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post


    STATEMENT

    1. The Church’s theology on marriage stems from the Holy Scripture, the teachings of the Church Fathers, and the arrangement of the Mystery of Marriage, clearly reflected in the service of this Mystery.

    The purpose of Christian marriage is to create good companionship and family, develop children as fruits of the love of the two spouses in Christ, and their connection to ecclesiastical life.

    The Church accepts for the relationship of man-woman and children that:

    a) the duality of the genders and their complementarity are not social inventions but are from God (...and God made man in His image, male and female He created them. And God blessed them, saying: Be fruitful and multiply..., Gen. 1:27-28)

    b) the sanctity of the union of man and woman refers to the relationship of Christ and the Church (...he who loves his wife loves himself... This mystery is great, but I speak concerning Christ and the Church, Eph. 5:28)

    c) Christian marriage is not just a living arrangement but a Holy Mystery, through which God’s grace is provided to the communion of man and woman with the goal of their joint path to deification—and this blessed journey concerns all couples with or without children

    d) father and mother are integral elements of a child’s and an adult’s life (Honor thy father and thy mother, Ex. 20, 12).

    2. Clearly, the state legislates, but this parameter neither deprives the Church of freedom of speech nor exempts the Church from the duty to inform the faithful nor can dictate what constitutes sin. The Church does not legislate and is not responsible for the laws. If it remains silent, however, it bears a heavy responsibility and negates itself.

    3. Since 2015, the cohabitation agreement provides same-sex couples with all the rights and possibilities of marriage, with the main exception of the ability to have children through adoption or surrogacy.

    The slogan “equality in marriage” aims at one goal, the acquisition of children by “same-sex couples.”

    4. It was announced that “same-sex marriage” and “same-sex parenthood” will be allowed through adoption and (via various means) through surrogacy.

    The initiators of the bill and its supporters promote the abolition of paternity and maternity and their conversion into neutral parenthood, the disappearance of the roles of the two genders within the family, and prioritize the sexual choices of homosexual adults over the interests of future children.

    Based on the bill, homosexual single parents will be able to impose their partner as “father 2” or “mother 2” on their child.

    5. This legislative initiative condemns future children to grow up without a father or mother in an environment of confusion of parental roles.

    The single-parent family is a different case. It causes the absence of one parent but not confusion of parental roles.

    On the contrary, homosexual cohabitation causes both. Additionally, these children often will not have the opportunity to know their other biological parent.

    They will also not experience the presence of the opposite gender (opposite of their “same-sex parents”) within a heterosexual relationship.

    Children with fathers 1 and 2 or mothers 1 and 2 (or more) will be the victims of an unnatural mechanism of parenthood.

    6. It was made public that: a) “same-sex couples” will be allowed joint adoption and adoption by the “same-sex spouse” of the parent (this will also apply to current children from surrogacy), b) surrogacy for a “same-sex couple” will not be allowed in Greece, but it will be recognized if done legally in another country.

    These regulations will be incentives for the exploitation of vulnerable women.

    If these aforementioned apply, it is a bill full of contradictions and ways to bypass its prohibitions (through pregnancies abroad) and Greece is likely to be condemned by the European Court of Human Rights for discrimination, thus the country will be forced to legislate surrogacy on its territory.

    7. The bill not only abolishes bioethical rules, Christian values, and the Greek family tradition but also overturns the rights of future children and the roles of the genders as elements of social cohesion – and this concerns everyone, even if they do not accept Christian ethics.

    The unanswered question is ultimately: What is the real reason for this decision that completely and radically changes the institution of marriage and the status of the parent, and why is it being promoted so persistently?

    8. The Church of Greece recognizes only the Holy Mystery of Christian marriage and rejects civil marriage regardless of gender.

    In this case, it stands against the civil marriage of “same-sex couples” for the additional reason that it inevitably leads to “same-sex parenthood” through adoption or surrogacy.

    This legislation conflicts both with Christian anthropology and the duty of society to ensure the welfare and proper upbringing of children, but also with the rights of children to have paternal and maternal presence and care.

    For all these reasons, and with a sense of pastoral responsibility and love, our Holy Church is categorically opposed to the proposed bill.

    9. The Holy Synod of the Hierarchy decided: a) to draft a relevant letter with its positions to the honorable members of the Greek Parliament, b) to announce its position in the holy churches on Sunday, February 4, 2024, and to make available a related pamphlet “To the People” through the holy churches and its website, c) to authorize each Metropolitan to proceed, within his diocese and according to his prudent pastoral judgment, with initiatives to inform and sensitize regarding the impending legislation and the institution of the family.

    I am not Christian but I agree with everything the Greek Hierachs say about this.

    Please post the news link. I would like to copy & paste it into a post on another forum. Thanks in advance.
    Spoiler!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Elizabeth~ View Post
    I am not Christian but I agree with everything the Greek Hierachs say about this.

    Please post the news link. I would like to copy & paste it into a post on another forum. Thanks in advance.
    Its translated from Greek - but will try to find a workable copy for you.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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