Is a non-Black marrying a Black person something that requires a high amount of rebelliousness?

[Östsvensk]

Well MENA are diverse group of people with different ethnic, religious and linguistic groups, as well political factions all of these effect how they relate to Europeans and to their “Euro-American” counterparts. The animosity did not come out of thin air. There are reasons why the animosity exists. This of course goes back all the way to Crusades and even perhaps further. That said some “MENA” groups don’t have animosity toward Europeans like Persians or Turks if they are considered as such. Arabs on the other hand do and especially those from Iraq and to lesser extent the Gulf, and significant portion of Palestinians, recently Yemenis and Libyans. Palestinians basically lost their land thanks to British imperialism, which began with the Balfour declaration, and of course American, British and western support for Israel. In Iraq it’s British colonization, and then the sanctions, and of course 2003 war. Iraq however is complex but Iraqi Arabs especially Western Iraqis many of whom are of Bedouin stock don’t really have much positive image of Europeans or Westerners in general. This can be said the same of the locals in the Gulf especially outside major cities. There many British expats that are homeless in Bahrain and sometimes they get bullied by local Arab children as well in other parts of the Gulf. The German saying that we readily accept a “white” aka European convert is not true. Not many have a white worship mentality. We are not like some parts of Asia or Latin America. Now Germany siding with Israel, no one respect or is in “awe” of it especially with the Gaza situation. He just observed anecdotes. “White” aka European women are tolerated and at times integrated into those communities, Men not at all, and even then the relationship can be tense.

MENAs was a bad choice of words on my part.

I would believe that the historical animosity and rivalry that exists between "the West" and the Middle East is largely rooted in religion and not so much a racial thing. The Maltese are Arabs and Catholic and considered a part of the Western hemisphere. Christian Arabs do not face the same resentment from Westerners as Muslim Arabs do. Ralph Nader for example was a Christian Arab who ran for president and nobody said he was not white or that he would be the first POC/minority president. Had a Muslim Arab ran, surely that would have been a huge deal.

You seem to be saying though that Arabs not only have a religious resentment towards Europeans but also a racial one as well. I don't think non-Arab MENAs like Kurds, Persians, Turks, Assyrians and so forth have that, no (if Europeans are hated racially, why even bother with doing Dawah towards them?). Nor do Europeans necessarily have that towards Middle Easterners. Well, sure, some Northern Europeans do not like "wogs" (blattar in Swedish) aka a more swarthy Caucasoid appearance, but that can be directed to Southern Europeans as well.

There are many reasons to why “White” aka European men don’t convert, but yes the majority of European/White converts are women.

Agreed.

This is a half truth and not correct. For example many MENA people can be blond and blue eyed without any European or even Kavkaz admixture. Well some MENA groups like Kurds, northern Persians, Turks and as far as Kashmir have those traits but they do have distant relationship with Europeans. Yet you can find Bedouin communities in the Negev, Jordan, parts of Saudi and even Yemenite Jews who get light eyes and “blondish” hair without any links to Europeans. There are significant Muslim communities that have blond hair and blue eyes like the Kazan Tatars, Bosniaks, Moriscos, Turks and various Kavkaz/ north Iranian communities no one think the women from there are trophy wives, what makes a “European” blond different? It’s just an Orientalist trope. Some might have a “fever” just like many white/european guys that have a fever for “yellow” Asian women and “brown” Latinas.

That’s is true in diaspora the rules get slightly relaxed. Yes many MENA from various communities will marry a “White” European woman for a variety of reasons, maybe their personality match, maybe they get along. Perhaps both side fetishize each other. It’s also partly convince in the diaspora because sponsoring someone is very expensive, and there is a lot of bureaucratic bs that’s go with it as well. There are MENA’s who are married to other communities, but I for example if I don’t get a woman from my community due to the reasons I mentioned yes I would marry a “white” woman of European descent simply due to the demographic of the area that I live in.

Yeah, it's probably more a diaspora thing. Those groups of blond(e) Muslims you mentioned are already Muslims. I don't think European blondes are fetishized necessarily, but I think converting a female European means that you have conquered and subjugated the culture and "won" over them. Muslims in Dawah do seem to promote and platform European female converts a lot (but hardly any male ones at all).

I believe White/European women convert because Islam offers them a natural outlet to be women again from the artificial feminist bs. Not to mention Islam gives women significant privileges if you read its tenets and practices. Islam honours motherhood for example, yet in the feminist west this seen as an abomination. Yes white European female converts often tend to be sincere in their conversion, it’s rarely due to economic or political goals as it’s implied. They often convert for truly spiritual reasons.

I usually just assumed it was because they married a Muslim man. Well, I don't know much about that or their intention as they are usually cut off when they convert.

[StonyArabia]

MENAs was a bad choice of words on my part.

Correct

I would believe that the historical animosity and rivalry that exists between "the West" and the Middle East is largely rooted in religion and not so much a racial thing. The Maltese are Arabs and Catholic and considered a part of the Western hemisphere. Christian Arabs do not face the same resentment from Westerners as Muslim Arabs do. Ralph Nader for example was a Christian Arab who ran for president and nobody said he was not white or that he would be the first POC/minority president. Had a Muslim Arab ran, surely that would have been a huge deal.

That is true it’s mostly religion, I did not imply it was racial. In fact Christian Arabs and other Christian ME were always connected to the West. Well “white” grouos like Bosinaks or Kosovars and Tatars are deemed non-white was always nonsense. Of course pagan Arabs were very different and they had a gripe with Christianity and the Romans, basically it was difficult to subdue them. Then with the arrival of Islam, the rivalry between the Christian and Islamic world began. Maltese probably have Arab admixture but they are heavily mixed with Italians, French, Iberians and even English. That said Maltese is indeed an an Arabic dialect that gor heavy latin influence, they converted from Islam to Christianity due to geographic proximity and the Norman conquests. Jews are seen as white especially Ashkenazim if he was Mizrahi perhaps it would be different.

You seem to be saying though that Arabs not only have a religious resentment towards Europeans but also a racial one as well.

No the resentment is religious and political not racial. Although the latter might intertwine. Arabs that are tribal like Bedouins in Iraq and Gulf are hostile to outsiders regardless of race. However most of the resentment that is toward Europeans or “Whites” is due to the legacy of British colonialism and creation of Israel, American neocolonialism and its mayhem in the region and the recent German support of Israel. But this is not for all Europeans or ”whites” either. Ireland relatively has cordial relationship with the Arab world. Sweden got a bad name recently due to kidnapping of Arab and other MENA children by the “Social” as form of forced assimilation which lead to hostile feelings in the “homeland” . It’s all politics and to lesser extent religious.

I don't think non-Arab MENAs like Kurds, Persians, Turks, Assyrians and so forth have that

Correct. Not even Arab have racial animosity, but they are tribal and are themselves divided into several groups. I was saying we don’t have a culture of white worship, that the German implied because it’s not true, and I know that in some Arab region perhaps it exist non Bedouin Levant and North Africa , but it could be he is referring to the groups you mentioned who sometimes in error are called Arabs especially if they are Muslim.

(if Europeans are hated racially, why even bother with doing Dawah towards them?).

Europeans are not hated by Islam. Islam at its core is very anti-racist religion. However the Arab racists are often very secular and not religious and often belong to pan-Arabist or ethnonationalist parties. These Arabs tend to be mostly from Iraq and to lesser extent Bedouin areas of the Levant, as well the Gulf. They resent non-Arab ethnic groups like Persians more so, and hostility to Europeans began due to geopolitical elements . One of Islam’s teaching is that all people need to get the message or call to God, regardless of race, this what Dawah means in Arabic the call. Of course Islam and being Arab are linked they don’t equal each other, as the majority of Muslim’s are of Asian descent Indonesians being the largest, this followed by the Stans who are mostly of Asian stock.

Nor do Europeans necessarily have that towards Middle Easterners. Well, sure, some Northern Europeans do not like "wogs" (blattar in Swedish) aka a more swarthy Caucasoid appearance, but that can be directed to Southern Europeans as well.

Correct, most MENA, Europeans, and South Asians look similar to each other aside from skin color.

Yeah, it's probably more a diaspora thing. Those groups of blond(e) Muslims you mentioned are already Muslims. I don't think European blondes are fetishized necessarily, but I think converting a female European means that you have conquered and subjugated the culture and "won" over them. Muslims in Dawah do seem to promote and platform European female converts a lot (but hardly any male ones at all).

There is a tiny bit of truth to it, but being blond blue eyed is not that special, since many Muslim’s can be blond. However this concept can also be applied to brunette “White” European women like those from Spain, Italy just as much. What is special about being blond. Some MENA guys do have a fetish just like “White” guys have yellow fever or brown Latinas. There has been many white “European “ in the Dawah scene who are converts or reverts depending on their preference of course like Yusuf Estes(Euro-American ), Gabriel Romani(Romanian), Muslim Cowboy(European American), Abdur Raheem McCarthy(European American), Hamza Den( English), there are more like as well Abdur Raheem Green(English-Polish).

MENAs was a bad choice of words on my part.

Correct

I would believe that the historical animosity and rivalry that exists between "the West" and the Middle East is largely rooted in religion and not so much a racial thing. The Maltese are Arabs and Catholic and considered a part of the Western hemisphere. Christian Arabs do not face the same resentment from Westerners as Muslim Arabs do. Ralph Nader for example was a Christian Arab who ran for president and nobody said he was not white or that he would be the first POC/minority president. Had a Muslim Arab ran, surely that would have been a huge deal.

That is true it’s mostly religion, I did not imply it was racial. In fact Christian Arabs and other Christian ME were always connected to the West. Well “white” grouos like Bosinaks or Kosovars and Tatars are deemed non-white was always nonsense. Of course pagan Arabs were very different and they had a gripe with Christianity and the Romans, basically it was difficult to subdue them. Then with the arrival of Islam, the rivalry between the Christian and Islamic world began. Maltese probably have Arab admixture but they are heavily mixed with Italians, French, Iberians and even English. That said Maltese is indeed an an Arabic dialect that gor heavy latin influence, they converted from Islam to Christianity due to geographic proximity and the Norman conquests. Jews are seen as white especially Ashkenazim if he was Mizrahi perhaps it would be different.

You seem to be saying though that Arabs not only have a religious resentment towards Europeans but also a racial one as well.

No the resentment is religious and political not racial. Although the latter might intertwine. Arabs that are tribal like Bedouins in Iraq and Gulf are hostile to outsiders regardless of race. However most of the resentment that is toward Europeans or “Whites” is due to the legacy of British colonialism and creation of Israel, American neocolonialism and its mayhem in the region and the recent German support of Israel. But this is not for all Europeans or ”whites” either. Ireland relatively has cordial relationship with the Arab world. Sweden got a bad name recently due to kidnapping of Arab and other MENA children by the “Social” as form of forced assimilation which lead to hostile feelings in the “homeland” . It’s all politics and to lesser extent religious.

I don't think non-Arab MENAs like Kurds, Persians, Turks, Assyrians and so forth have that

Correct. Not even Arab have racial animosity, but they are tribal and are themselves divided into several groups. I was saying we don’t have a culture of white worship, that the German implied because it’s not true, and I know that in some Arab region perhaps it exist non Bedouin Levant and North Africa , but it could be he is referring to the groups you mentioned who sometimes in error are called Arabs especially if they are Muslim.

(if Europeans are hated racially, why even bother with doing Dawah towards them?).

Europeans are not hated by Islam. Islam at its core is very anti-racist religion. However the Arab racists are often very secular and not religious and often belong to pan-Arabist or ethnonationalist parties. These Arabs tend to be mostly from Iraq and to lesser extent Bedouin areas of the Levant, as well the Gulf. They resent non-Arab ethnic groups like Persians more so, and hostility to Europeans began due to geopolitical elements . One of Islam’s teaching is that all people need to get the message or call to God, regardless of race, this what Dawah means in Arabic the call. Of course Islam and being Arab are linked they don’t equal each other, as the majority of Muslim’s are of Asian descent Indonesians being the largest, this followed by the Stans who are mostly of Asian stock.

Nor do Europeans necessarily have that towards Middle Easterners. Well, sure, some Northern Europeans do not like "wogs" (blattar in Swedish) aka a more swarthy Caucasoid appearance, but that can be directed to Southern Europeans as well.

Correct, most MENA, Europeans, and South Asians look similar to each other aside from skin color.

I usually just assumed it was because they married a Muslim man. Well, I don't know much about that or their intention as they are usually cut off when they convert.

Well a lot of it is due to being married to a Muslim man. However many of them convert genuinely, as Islam offers a better alternative to the Western Feminist paradigm. Where is the freedom of religion, choice and secular values ? It seems they are just buzzwords and motto without meaning.

[Östsvensk]

Well a lot of it is due to being married to a Muslim man. However many of them convert genuinely, as Islam offers a better alternative to the Western Feminist paradigm. Where is the freedom of religion, choice and secular values ? It seems they are just buzzwords and motto without meaning.

I'm not sure from which direction the cutting off comes from. From the little experience I have of it, when a European or "Western" female marries a Muslim, he will forbid her from talking to her family and have anything to do with her 'old culture' from that point.

[Mortimer]

I dont know why Europeans hate Islam. They accept virtually every faith and religion, like buddhism, hinduism, even satanism, but when it comes to islam they would say if someone is muslim and he is white, he is no longer white. Why the hate for islam?

[Blondie]

I don't think European blondes are fetishized necessarily,

They do it as hell, i had enough experience in Egypt lol

[Mortimer]

They do it as hell, i had enough experience in Egypt lol

What about Gypsies in Hungary, do they fetishize you for being blonde?

[Östsvensk]

I dont know why Europeans hate Islam. They accept virtually every faith and religion, like buddhism, hinduism, even satanism, but when it comes to islam they would say if someone is muslim and he is white, he is no longer white. Why the hate for islam?

Christianity and Islam are two religions that are relatively similar and have a lot in common, and this is something that paradoxically creates an extra layer of stubbornness to convert. They're so close to the goal line and not finishing, and it causes an annoyance. I know of also Catholics who feel similarly with the Eastern Orthodox and say they in fact have less sympathy for them than they do for Protestants.

[Östsvensk]

They do it as hell, i had enough experience in Egypt lol

I think all women who are hot and who don't cover themselves with a hijab face that in Egypt.

[Mortimer]

Christianity and Islam are two religions that are relatively similar and have a lot in common, and this is something that paradoxically creates an extra layer of stubbornness to convert. They're so close to the goal line and not finishing, and it causes an annoyance. I know of also Catholics who feel similarly with the Eastern Orthodox and say they in fact have less sympathy for them than they do for Protestants.

Could be and because of the history, that they fought eatch other etc. Good explanation. But I think there are much more vile and "exotic" cults, hare krishna, yoga, even satanism, and satanism is very popular among european nationalists like Varg Vikernes who burned down churches, no one says he is not white, but if a white man becomes muslim they would say he is not white. You are right that it is paradoxicall.

[Fares112358]

I think all women who are hot and who don't cover themselves with a hijab face that in Egypt.

I am not a public speaker, but it doesn't work as that as far I have seen here. It's about the type of population you're around. Common places you'd probably get harassments if they didn't fear you enough. So if you're not an esteemed person avoid walking with the local population. If you're based you can walk anywhere, if you're a man or woman.