Croatian man killed in Ireland "for speaking Croatian"

[Insuperable]

I am aware of who works in the sex trade, but that doesn't mean I actually use their services. On a related note, a lot of the criticisms of Black male sexuality and promiscuity, while at times valid, do come across as spite, jealousy and hypocrisy from both White and Asian men.

This must be your one thousand similar post. Since you like to nag about it so much what is the purpose of such information?

[oszkar07]

That's my writing style, I didn't copy anything.

Also I personally am NOT talking about mere safety, and I am NOT talking about high-class escorts.
(I only mentioned that Nordic countries consider public health and safety.)

I make a distinction between prostitutes, as I said earlier:



Legalisation of prostitution leads to more prostitutes and lower prices, simple as that. Basic economics.

Lower prices benefit the customer NOT the prostitute.
The prostitute will have less and less power, and will be less able to resist abuse and degradation,
which will become widespread (like in porn), legal, unenforced or under-reported.

Lower prices thus lead to lower market value for prostitutes (thus abuse against them will be more tolerated),
an inability for "normal" self-employed prostitutes to make a living,
and thus more pimping and trafficking to meet demand, economies of scale.

High-class escorts are a totally separate thing, very few.

Higher prices, and a closed expensive market where laws are actually enforced,
reduces trafficking, violence, abuse, degradation to a minimum.

Prostitution and trafficking can never be separated, and will never be totally absent.
But they can be reduced to a minimum.

Once again I made a distinction between trafficked prostitutes and women who in the west choose to work in legal brothels
or high class escorts.

I think the women who have more options eg professional models or university students/college girls that choose to work in this industry I doubt those women would
stay in the industry if the prices dropped. That is where your argument does not make sense, because those people are not obligated to work
as sex workers many of them have capacity to do other work the reason they have chose sex work is specifically because they can make a lot of money from it.
If they couldnt make lot of money from it they would not do it.

The drug addicts and low skilled and probably less healthy sex workers are more likely to stay in the industry even if the prices drop.

But it is probably not likely the prices of high class escorts will drop because many are seen by wealthier customers.

Again my posts have not been promoting sex work but simply stating my belief that there are many women in the west that choose to do this work rather than not having other options that is all that i have essentially been saying.

I mean choice is choice , if you have a choice then its very pretencious to pretend that you just have to stick with a crap job simply because "the money is too good" ? , People are responsible for there choices when they have a capacity to choose.

[CosmoLady]

Once again I made a distinction between trafficked prostitutes and women who in the west choose to work in legal brothels

No, you cannot make this distinction.
Trafficking, pimping, gang activity, drug addiction are widespread in the German mega-brothels,
there have been many crackdowns and scandals. The more the police look, the more they find.

As brothels become larger and more widespread, the trafficking problem will also become more widespread,
unless there is no migration, and a large bureaucracy that verifies the immigration status and labour status of every prostitute.
Not likely, especially since NGOs and companies "recruit" desperate foreign women legally and get them visas.

Legal prostitution and lax border controls and mass migration will INEVITABLY lead to widespread trafficking.

Close the borders and maybe we can talk again about prostitution for the local, legal population.

or high class escorts.

Yes, high-class escorts are totally different. Sugar babies can be like middle-class escorts for men with some money.

I think the women who have more options eg professional models or university students/college girls that choose to work in this industry I doubt those women would stay in the industry if the prices dropped.

Exactly, this is what I am saying.
Falling prices, from legalisation, Ukrainian refugees, increasing supply, changing culture, OnlyFans, etc.,
harms legal prostitutes' OWN financial prospects (unless they are unusually beautiful), and goes against their own self-interest.

And "all-inclusive deals" (imposed by management?) remove the ability of the prostitute to negotiate.
And rougher sex, degradation and abuse becomes normalised like in porn.
The prostitutes themselves regret it eventually, but don't have much choice, or don't know another life.
And cash comes easily, they have a place to sleep, and prostitution looks terrible on a resume anyway.

Look, most prostitutes are not that smart, unless you count street smarts.

That is where your argument does not make sense, because those people are not obligated to work
as sex workers many of them have capacity to do other work the reason they have chose sex work is specifically because they can make a lot of money from it.
If they couldnt make lot of money from it they would not do it.

With lower prices it will be more difficult for them to make a living.
Those that continue, for low prices, have other issues (drugs, debt, desperation, lack of skills, etc.)

The drug addicts and low skilled and probably less healthy sex workers are more likely to stay in the industry even if the prices drop.

On the contrary,
these will be the only ones left in the industry (except for escorts and part-time opportunists) if prices keep dropping.

Criminal cartels can work to keep prices high,
but they will still be employing this unhealthy trafficked type to cut costs, maximise profit.

Again my posts have not been promoting sex work but simply stating my belief that there are many women in the west that choose to do this work rather than not having other options that is all that i have essentially been saying.

I mean choice is choice , if you have a choice then its very pretencious to pretend that you just have to stick with a crap job simply because "the money is too good" ? , People are responsible for there choices when they have a capacity to choose.

I am not debating the morality of voluntary non-coerced prostitution, that is a separate discussion.

[#Oda#]

There is a saying that it is the "oldest profession in the world."
I dont think anything will change anytime soon, and i doubt its a one way street as your comment implies despite your disaproval of their profession they probably dont want men to stop visiting them in the same way any person who runs any buisiness does not want there customers to go away.

Its funny and odd how some people always seem to put the responsibility of the existence of prostitutes on men or male customers. Another equally ridiculous counter argument would be to say " if more women gave it up for free there would not be any prostitutes".

Prostitutes dont just simply agree to have sex with a random man that offers them a transaction in the street but rather there is a whole deliberate calculated and orchestrated process of preparation and capitol that goes into promoting the Service and snaring prospective customers including ...Lingerie,Make up, Advertising with seductive photos and advertised Services,Flirtyness and Provocation is used -Prostitution is not random it is calculated and designed to a buisiness model.. .... IF YOU BUILD IT !

On the other hand you can say, things only emerge when there‘s a need.

Okay, as I have already assumed yesterday, you got me wrong. I do not disapprove it. I simply corrected your statement about the West resp. especially Germany being degenerate for decades, since the 90s, because in opposite to you I was a grown-up eyewitness of that time, and rothaer, who's the same, agreed to it, if you might have overlooked that.

[Aldaris]

The issue with prostitution is that despite you saying a lot of women are doing it voluntary, I don't agree, I think women that sell their bodies have in a very high percentage of cases a history of sexual abuse, drug abuse but then there are the women that are trafficked and also children into prostitution. It's an abusive industry and why would you claim that even if some women might choose to do prostitution (which I doubt) that many more are not forced into it. If any woman is involved in prostitution it has an enormous social stigma. I mean how many men would be happy to have his wife in that profession?

It's not the same as the examples you are giving. Prostitution devalues all women because women's bodies are being commodified and not given human dignity.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/soci...-sex-1.1996462

Exactly. You can't fight evolutionary psychology no matter how hard you try. That single-valued analysis in the post you're reacting to may be amusing, but we wouldn't have this very discussion if being a prostitute was 'just another job'.

[Incal]

Human beings are corrupt by nature so in every kind of guild or business there's always going to be some sort of abuse: from politics to prostitution.

[#Oda#]

I like the petty moral resentment part, that's exacty like you, typical frigid stuck-up Protestant scolding school-matron!

A cheer for stupid, premature, bold as brass prejudices. That's how I know you.

[Hithaeglir]

It isn't because that is the language they speak in Ireland. They speak English. You would know that living in England. Irish is not the language people speak in Ireland. It is only learned mostly by rote and most people can't speak conversational Irish. Most Irish will tell you they speak a "Cúpla focal" which means a few words. People know this. They know the Irish speak English.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/educ...hool-1.3027745

Yeah, I know that, but it just sounds ironic I heard some Irish people speak in Gaelic when I was in Kilkenny so it's not that rare. Also most street names and signs are translated in Gaelic.

[oszkar07]

]No, you cannot make this distinction.
Trafficking, pimping, gang activity, drug addiction are widespread in the German mega-brothels,
there have been many crackdowns and scandals. The more the police look, the more they find.
Legal prostitution and lax border controls and mass migration will INEVITABLY lead to widespread trafficking.

of course you can predominantly make this distinction amongst western national European/British/American/Australian
etc prostitutes because the trafficking is predominantly Asian and certain east european countries.
If prostitution is legal there is government capacity for checking which does happen in the west in legal brothels and if that
in certain instances has put light on where there is trafficking then those places should be closed down.

Again there is a distinction between trafficked and non trafficked prostitutes, there is also a distinction between high brow
brothels there are female run brothels with female western management.

To my initial post which was simply noting that there are many women that by their own choice not coercian work as sex workers
most of the responses including your actually prove what I was saying that a number of people just cant seem to accept and handle that this is the case and much of the responses including yours seem to be red herrings and derailments/diversions used seemingly to cast doubt on this point.

Even if 100 independent escorts appeared and said yes they have college degree's but they voluntarily worked in prostitution for some time ... many here seemingly would find some way to deny it because there is a tendency to not wish to accept it which is what i originally said and it seems i have been proved exactly correct. Thank you for again proving my point.

Exactly, this is what I am saying.
Falling prices, from legalisation, Ukrainian refugees, increasing supply, changing culture, OnlyFans, etc.,
harms legal prostitutes' OWN financial prospects (unless they are unusually beautiful), and goes against their own self-interest.

The bottom rung of cheaper prostitution in much of the west has already been knocked down or lowered due to Asian immigration and the spread of the Asian love you long time massage parlours that seem to have popped up in every big urban city over the last 10 to 15 years.
I dont think the medium level to high level escorts have been affected by this as they depend on customers that are already willing to pay higher prices, if anything prostitution has probably only increased than decreased.

On the contrary,
these will be the only ones left in the industry (except for escorts and part-time opportunists) if prices keep dropping.

that is not on the contrary to what i was saying it is actually what I was saying if you did actually read what I wrote that should be apparent. You seem to be fixated on prices dropping I never mentioned prices other than the women who have the option to do other types of work but that choose to work as prostitutes even only parttime are doing it because of the quick and lucrative money they can make. I made that point clear also in my intial post.

I am not debating the morality of voluntary non-coerced prostitution, that is a separate discussion.

It is not a seperate discussion it is pretty much what i talked about from my initial post to this thread rather you and others seperated it from the original discussion with all the red herrings about trafficked prostitutes lol.
non cooerced voluntary prostitution is precisely what I have been posting about despite the fact that seemingly people think that it
does not exist or rather they seem to wish to deny its existence.
I was not debating the morality of it I was stating that it exists and that there is a willingness amongst certain women to do this, again the odd and funny thing is a seeming desire from many to wish to deny that and somehow blame everything on coercian trqfficking etc.

On the other hand I dont find it at all suprising that many females that are not prostitutes to have a general aversion to prostitutes to be strange it is rather expected because logically prostitutes take both the potential money and male attention away from women in society but that was not even my point . To my point mostly the response was not addressing my point but going everywhere around it and restating the point that i already acknowledged that there is also exists trafficked and coerced prostitution but i was discussing women like the ones in the youtube videos i posted if you watched them.

[oszkar07]

Human beings are corrupt by nature so in every kind of guild or business there's always going to be some sort of abuse: from politics to prostitution.

yes corruption to various degree's is present in every field as is all human vices such as use of alcohol and drugs.
from lawyers doctors judges etc you can and will find cocaine users and alcohol drinkers you will also find people that have experienced abuse
because all of those things are across the board statistically like 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 whatever it is.