Croatian man killed in Ireland "for speaking Croatian"

[Grace O'Malley]

A job is a job. I'm sure hammering shingles on a roof in the middle of a hot and humid summer isn't all that great either.

What is weird during this long conversation is some posters are against prostitution but... also not against prostitution. They have no issue with escorts/private prostitution.

So prostitution bad... but not if you call them and book a time and place, then it's okay... Why assume those women aren't sex trafficked? All you have to do as a pimp is put the woman's ad on the internet.

As I said before, police don't give a fuck about prostitutes. Everyone knows what part of the city to go to pick up hookers. Everyone knows prostitutes roam truck stops. It's not a secret. So what does this tell us? Society believes there is a need for it. Yes, they occasionally crack down on prostitutes but it's only for show. They crack down for a short period and then it's back to the usual.

Of course, sex trafficking is terrible. It's terrible that teenage girls (and boys) run away from home because of physical and sexual abuse and become drug addicted prostitutes. I would look down on someone who visited a prostitute. But also let's be honest: society allows it.

I remember watching a documentary about the Yorkshire Ripper. The cops were staking out the red light district. They kept a record of every license plate. They were shocked by how many men a day drove through there.

Lots of jobs are unpleasant. A lot of people would be happy to not do their line of work if they could afford to. This is really not about whether people like their jobs or not that is neither here nor there but all the reasons you have stated in your post is why prostitution should not be condoned by society. I think the only reason why society might allow it is because it is so difficult to stop and also people grapple with how to make it less dangerous for the sex workers involved. I don't think it is because society agrees there is a need for it. It is because it is difficult to change some people's attitudes on the topic and that it is impossible to stop it like a lot of other vices that the human race has. Police do not give a fuck about prostitutes because most of society views prostitutes as "objects" and not human because of the work they do. This is part of what I'm stating as well but most people are choosing to ignore it.

I do believe however that attitudes can be changed and this has happened multiple times.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Everything I know about prostitutes comes from comedian Jim Norton.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I think the only reason why society might allow it is because it is so difficult to stop and also people grapple with how to make it less dangerous for the sex workers involved. I don't think it is because society agrees there is a need for it.

Throughout history, there has been prostitution. It's even talked about in the Bible. I suspect there is an understanding that men need sex. Without a sexual outlet, men can become a big problem. Even in prison sex is rampant. They try to make effeminate men look like women.

It is because it is difficult to change some people's attitudes on the topic and that it is impossible to stop it like a lot of other vices that the human race has. Police do not give a fuck about prostitutes because most of society views prostitutes as "objects" and not human because of the work they do. This is part of what I'm stating as well but most people are choosing to ignore it.

I do believe however that attitudes can be changed and this has happened multiple times.

The demand for sex is high and so someone is going to supply it to them.

Women can have sex whenever they want simply because they're a woman. A woman can walk into a bar and pick up a guy for sex easy. There is always a man willing to follow her. Men can't do that and so many men go to prostitutes. You're not going to change what men want and their means of getting it.

If prostitution magically disappeared, I'd be afraid.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Let's be honest... it is odd that the difference between having sex and it being a crime and having sex and it not being a crime is if you give the person money.

With regards to my last post, I don't know if I saw it in a movie/show or if it's real but there would be a bar with prostitutes and to get around the illegality of prostitution the client would buy an expensive bottle. The guy would then have sex with the woman but it wouldn't be illegal because he didn't pay to have sex but instead paid for the bottle of alcohol. Since there was no exchange of money for sex it wasn't illegal.

I said the same thing in my post. That "logic" doesn't apply to crack and smack, though. Gene Simmons is seen as a stud because of his massive body count. He would be classified as a multiple criminal offender if he paid all of the chicks that he screwed!

[Grace O'Malley]

Throughout history, there has been prostitution. It's even talked about in the Bible. I suspect there is an understanding that men need sex. Without a sexual outlet, men can become a big problem. Even in prison sex is rampant. They try to make effeminate men look like women.





The demand for sex is high and so someone is going to supply it to them.

Women can have sex whenever they want simply because they're a woman. A woman can walk into a bar and pick up a guy for sex easy. There is always a man willing to follow her. Men can't do that and so many men go to prostitutes. You're not going to change what men want and their means of getting it.

If prostitution magically disappeared, I'd be afraid.

I understand that there are men that can't access women but it is still degrading and dehumanising to use women's bodies to satisfy these men's sexual appetites. The fact that it is difficult to stop does not mean that it has to be accepted. Of course there has been prostitution throughout history. In the past women did not have any control over their bodies but now women in western countries have more rights than they had in the past. I do think unless society regresses, which is completely possible, prostitution will be looked at as something completely primitive and inhumane eventually. Sex is not a right and where money is involved in selling sex it is always questionable about consent. The excerpt below is a the heart of the matter for me. This is one of my core beliefs on the topic.

Prostitution as a violation of human rights
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights recognises the inherent dignity and equal and inalienable rights of all human beings as the foundation of freedom, justice and peace.10 In protection of dignity, Article 5 states that ‘no one shall be subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment’." There are some who maintain that prostitution is not subordination but the sexual empowerment of women. However, in practice, prostitution often does involve the degradation of women. It is not that only women are prostitutes, but the empirical reality is that the majority of prostitutes are female, and the majority of clients are male. Andrea Dworkin claims that prostitution involves the sale of an individual’s degradation. As a survivor of prostitution, she describes the inhumane violence targeted at the female body as ‘a whole human life reduced to a few sexual orifices’.12 On the premise that prostitution involves degrading treatment, the issue becomes a question of consent. The theoretical sustainability of prostitution as ‘choice’ rests on the assumption that one can consent to degrading treatment without undermining one’s inherent human dignity.

Immanuel Kant suggests that there is a difference between marketable and non-marketable goods.13 The value of a marketable good, which can be replaced by something else as its equivalent, is its price. However, the value of a non-marketable good, which has no equivalent, is its dignity. A distinction is drawn between a market price, which has relative worth depending on market competition and the availability of alternatives, and intrinsic worth. It is a well-established principle of human rights that every individual has inherent, intrinsic dignity that is inalienable and not marketable. Thus, ‘to dispose of oneself as a mere means to some end of one’s own liking is to degrade the humanity in one’s own person which was entrusted to man to preserve’.14 As such, sex as a marketable good demeans a person’s intrinsic worth. The trading of sex through commerce inherently conflicts with the notion of protecting the individual’s right to be free from inhuman treatment.

https://www8.austlii.edu.au/au/journ...Jl/2008/61.pdf

[Nelju]

I'm opposed to prostitution, but not necessarily for moralistic reasons. I simply find most prostitutes unappealing and yucky; I need to have a connection or sexual attraction to someone to go to bed with them. Additionally, the prevalence of STDs concerns me, and I believe these individuals should seek real employment instead of exploiting men's sexual needs.

I support the prohibition and penalization for both men and women involved in prostitution. Penalizing only men seems foolish, while high-end escorts laugh at the naivety of simps and politicians on their way to the bank.

Certainly, there are many dynamics of exploitation of women involved in this industry. However, I don't believe for a second that the majority of women in developed countries engage in this profession involuntarily when there is plenty of other work available. I find it much more morally questionable in third-world countries where many women lack alternative options.

[~Elizabeth~]

Everything I know about prostitutes comes from comedian Jim Norton.

I listened to it.

[Daco Celtic]

Everything I know about prostitutes comes from comedian Jim Norton.

Since the thread is already way off topic I'll add that the Howard Stern Show > Opie and Anthony. I got Richard Christy as my avatar.

[oszkar07]

I don't think modelling nude is the same as being penetrated sexually. Also that is not high risk as far as safety etc. So no they aren't comparable in my view.

Anyway here is a recent report on the mental health of sex workers. No point ignoring that the majority of sex workers are foreigners from much poorer backgrounds and countries.



Also mental health issues are prevalent with sex workers.



https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/acps.13559

The whole sex industry is problematic and I do not understand why someone would support it. I can guess why though.

Well i imagine the women who choose to do it willingly (the painting them all broadly with same brush is a dishonest misrepresentation as is saying that they all dont have choices or are all runaways from broken homes etc and couldnt walk out the door if they wanted to) probably do it because they identify it is something they can make more money doing than working many other jobs.

Would you be willing to accept there are women who work as escorts that have University degree's or are in college or university and doing it as a side hustle.

Your tendency as always is to run to copy paste articles about mental health or trafficking but you rarely can accept that simply their exist cognitively intact sober women that also work as prostitutes.


Also i have not said i support Prostitution.

I have said i dont like that there is trafficking/coersian.

But i dont see all these virtue signallers on here doing anything or willing to do anything about it other than bitch and moan on a internet forum so i dont see their supposed strong views as being anymore of consequence than my mixed or less passionate or dispassionate views.

Im not here to simp out or try to be a populist I say what i think and i give zero fucks if that doesnt win me merit amongst some at least i stick to what i say and dont change my tune every few posts just to fit with some.

Anyway nice pivot Grace but what you call sex work does not necessarily limit to penetration the point of my question again to you if someone accepts to do somthing for the exchange of money concerning their body if they are completly complicit and consentual is it abuse ?

if a male stripper allows drunk 50 year old women at a Hens party fondle his d-ck and butt cheeks is that Abuse

Grace if you dont pivot again which you will otherwise i suspect you will say no its not same thing,

however Grace if I had asked the same thing except said the stripper was female and the bucks party was male I suspect you probably would have answered differntly by saying in some way it is Abuse,

And for the record with this Topic and associated views this is the type of Hypocrisy I am talking about

I am often somewhat contrarian because I understand hypocrisy when I smell it.

[Blondie]

just that you quoted me in a way that implied i said something about the swedish system or any specific region , your comments didnt seem connected specific to my comments so wondered why you replied to my post.

I dont know why, maybe because you were the last, but my comment just confirmed your narrative in general, and i wanted to explain the sex industry from east european perspective. Although the motivation is similar but i definitely think the sex work is in different cultural place in East & West Europe.

Of course i dont agree with Grace that we must criminalize only the guys. So the junkie is a criminal but the drug dealer is okay? Thats very unfair. The criminalozation of only guys came from this narrative that every single prostitute is a victim ang they are forced. Thats a fake myth. I mentioned my female student friend from my University who is social worker at same time and she is sometimes naked and masturbate in the fornt of elders for money. She has no pimp, who forces her? Nobody. Who forces the only fans sluts? Nobody. Who forces the porn stars? Nobody. Who forces the sugar babies? Nobody.

I dont agree with this the state must control the citizens narrative either. This freedom is what we dreamed of in the communism, where the state controlled everything. Should we go back this way that the state will be your step dad? I am a free people i do what i want. If im so dumb that i drink 1L palinka in every day, that my stupidism and everyone has right to be dumb. I dont want to ban prostitution not because i love it, of course i dislike sex work as well, but banning of every form of prostitution is totally against the human rights.