Croatian man killed in Ireland "for speaking Croatian"

[#Oda#]

What about rising number of incels? Men in their 20s or 30s who have never seen a vagina? Are you and other women who are against prostitution give them your vaginas?

Btw, I am against prostitution.

There exists no right of humans to get properly satisfied. Just want to say. Although males tend to think that.

[oszkar07]

We have been over this. Nobody is denying it. No act, whether criminal or not, can be completely eradicated from society; that's not an argument for taking any act, including prostitution, less seriously, let alone ignoring it altogether.



That's what we disagree on, and it's a matter of values. You won't convince me and I probably won't convince you. If I were a state attorney, I would prosecute a pimp just as hard as I would prosecute a murderer. And I'm certainly not claiming that consensual prostitution is an instance of rape. It's obviously not, but the criminal nature of an act isn't defined solely by the sheer damage it causes.



Yeah, only loonies would think so.



As I implied earlier, of course, I don't call that rape. And even though I despise such women, it is too much of a stretch to compare them to institutionalized prostitutes, who literally make a whole living out of that.



The slippery slope argument would be to claim that if we ban prostitution, things will evolve in that direction. I have two issues with this. Firstly, it's not necessarily true. A conservative society with no prostitution but also no burkas is not a utopia. Secondly, you seem to assume that wearing burkas or regulating sex is inherently negative or backwards, which is not the case either. There are many benefits to how moros deal with women.



Yes, you've circled back to the beginning somewhat. Even if I ban prostitution, there will still be instances of 'some college dorm where a certain girl secretly agrees with certain male or males to exchange sex or sexual activities for currency'—nobody is claiming otherwise. However, my point is that governments have all the means to fight it and mitigate it to a minimal degree. That's why we have laws and means to enforce them in the first place.

In my oppinion the current world is too commercially sexualised.

Sex is a human need like is eating ,there is obviously the difference being one can go without one but not the other, but of course there are limitations people can eat normally or be gluttons but by nature some will have more appetite than others.

Even though as you would say we really only need to eat basic food but our nature to capitalise and be creative around human needs we have
created vast options of pleasurable eateries. We have done the same with the human need for sex.
What is the harm in it - for eating people might over eat get fat get diabetes etc - people have choices and why take that option from them.

For sex there are woman willing to get paid for the demand of the need and desire for sexual interaction with attractive women.

Whats the harm in it if its consentual ?

Theoretically I dont think there is great harm , you say sexual diseases ok but a promiscuous person can get such diseases and part of that comes down to hygiene and also somewhat luck .

Still I would agree that modern world due to technology - internet - webcams - smart phone cams - competing media platforms -
the modern world has gone crazy with commercialised sex.

Prosecuting Pimps ?

These days a Pimp can be not much more than a provider of a building with certain security features eg cameras and lockable doors, rooms with beds. etc.

The provider simply can be taking money as type of renting/leasing the building otherwise the women can be
considered somewhat sole / independent operators.

Some are completly or mostly independent operators.
So in that sense they can be their own Pimps.
So on that score you would also have to mean you would Prosecute them the sole operator working girls -
the same as you would Prosecute a murderer ?

In most western orientated jurisdictions that is not probably ever going to be possible... maybe in Saudi Arabia not in the West anywhere .

If a woman meets a guy at a bar then they go to a hotel to f-ck because he is secretly paying her a few hundred bucks or bought her expensive jewelry - you will probably never even know about it.

As for the over commercialised porn world we live in, so long as we live in Capitalist - let the markets run free style societies - that is probably not changing anytime soon either (Keep on Rocking in the Free world).

Th next big thing though will be high level sex robots that look like women and talk like women.

A lot of Porn will be taken over by AI that will make Porno's that look as real as if you are watching real porn actors performing.

How then will real human women porn content providers adapt to the new technology sex robots taking over. I suspect they will
use them in their content - like you will probably have a robot that looks exactly like a real human except the robot will have like a
1 metre long penis so the human models will probably incorporate these super Dong Robots into there content.

But the robots will probably be extremely expensive like up to 100 grand so theoretically you could be a Pimp of a sex Robot and rent them out. Actually thats whats probably coming for sure - sex robot hookers.

This stuff wont stop in a capitalist society - you wish to strive for a Moralist Society
But Money Talks ooh that money talks. Im just the messenger btw.

[Scarface F]

Meanwhile you left Stears, the man you loves because he was unstable when it comes to jobs. Man at least worked.

Next...

Despite which you knew he is an aspie and in what you ate getting into.

+ cheated on all your boyfriends

[Scarface F]

The communist Hungary was far less corrupt than present Hungary.

well, maybe it was.

[#Oda#]

This is not rocket science
No exchange of money = slut
Exchange of money in one form or the other = prostitute or golddigger

In the end all men pay for sex in one way or the other and all wemen are prostitutes.

I have been reading your comments with an open ear until now, but liking this shit disqualifies you, oszkar.

[Aldaris]

In my oppinion the current world is too commercially sexualised.

Sex is a human need like is eating ,there is obviously the difference being one can go without one but not the other, but of course there are limitations people can eat normally or be gluttons but by nature some will have more appetite than others.

Even though as you would say we really only need to eat basic food but our nature to capitalise and be creative around human needs we have
created vast options of pleasurable eateries. We have done the same with the human need for sex.
What is the harm in it - for eating people might over eat get fat get diabetes etc - people have choices and why take that option from them.

For sex there are woman willing to get paid for the demand of the need and desire for sexual interaction with attractive women.

So far I agree. Edit: mostly. See below.

Whats the harm in it if its consentual ?

It's often women who ask these questions, as they don't fully understand us, and we don't fully understand them. Why do we have this discussion in the first place? If the issue were as trivial as it could be answered by this question, we wouldn't be talking about it. The thing is, as men, we sometimes have very high standards when it comes to purity - for me, it tops the list of traits I find attractive. This, along with our inherent tribalism, makes us concerned about these things. Evolutionary Psychology 101.

Still I would agree that modern world due to technology - internet - webcams - smart phone cams - competing media platforms -
the modern world has gone crazy with commercialised sex.

It has gone crazy indeed.

Prosecuting Pimps ?

These days a Pimp can be not much more than a provider of a building with certain security features eg camera and lockable doors, rooms with beds. etc.

The provider simply can be taking money as type of renting/leasing the building - otherwise the women can be considered somewhat sole / independent oprators.
Some are completly or mostly independent operators , So in that sense they can be their own Pimps.
So on that score you would also have to mean you would Prosecute them the sole operator working girls - the same as you would a murderer ?

What I meant is that I wouldn't just ignore its presence around me while treating it as a misdemeanor. I would never overlook it or allow it to go unchecked. I didn't explicitly suggest that the charges should be equivalent to those of a murderer; rather, I was referring to the thoroughness of implementation than the severity of punishment. That said, if the charges were solely up to me, I would make pretty damn sure they serve as a deterrent.

In most western orientated jurisdictions that is not probably never going to be possible... maybe in Saudi Arabia not in the West anywhere .

It's a good thing not to be naive, but banning sex work and implementing the very same methods that are already implemented in the case of every other crime is not a pipe dream. Again, it won't be eradicated entirely though.

If a woman meets a guy at a bar then they go to a hotel to f-ck because he is secretly paying her a few hundred bucks or bought her expensive jewelry - you will probably never even know about it.

As for the over commercialised porn world we live in, so long as we live in Capitalist - let the markets run free style societies - that is probably not changing anytime soon either (Keep on Rocking in the Free world).

Pal, there's also a high demand for CP, yet despite capitalism and the free market, it remains a complete fringe. That's because authorities DON'T actually ignore CP and do a pretty commendable job at combating it. They're not all a bunch of useless oafs. Apply the same/similar standard to adult content/'workers', and there you go.

[Aldaris]

So far I agree.

I should have been more explicit here and read more carefuly - what I meant is what he says is factually correct, not that I'm ok with the fact that it happens. But it is apparent, my stance is far from neutral.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Yes you can give your kidney to someone in need here in Australia and the same with surrogacy. Mostly these involve relatives that want to help. However money can't be involved. I would give my kidney if my daughter needed it.

Isn't it odd that you can give a kidney but you can't sell a kidney? We have people who are in need of a kidney die because... it's perceived as undignified to sell one's kidney...

No Saudi Arabia is not where I would chose to live. Anyway there are loads of things which people do that aren't in their best interests. I'm just solely discussing prostitution and it's implications and the buying a woman's body for sex which I view as dehumanising and immoral.

That's fine that you think it's dehumanizing and immoral but it's not fine you restrict consenting adults because of your opinion. Why should others who decide for themselves - without coercion from others- want to sell their bodies have to be restricted because you personally find it offensive? Are you harmed in any way?

I'm not here to argue about all of society's ills and about the whole issue of consent across a broad range of issues. We are just discussing prostitution and the issue around that. Prostitution whether legal or not does not have an affect on human trafficking there is always human trafficking involved. The problem is that there is never enough prostitutes to satisfy the demand. There is not just an argument about a woman choosing to prostitute herself. The whole model is corrupt.

Sexual coercion is terrible but you've also been arguing that a woman who isn't coerced into having sex but has chosen to sell her body isn't able to consent.

There are a whole load of issues and questions about whether someone involved in prostitution can really give consent.

It's really simple: is someone forcing the woman (or the male prostitute) into selling their body for money? It's either yes or no.

Consent relies on three conditions: the freedom to choose a sexual partner, the freedom to choose the nature of relations, and the freedom to choose the timing. If any one of these conditions is impaired, the sexual relations should be considered forced – for example, when someone forces their regular partner or spouse to have sex at a time or in a way they do not want.

Let's see if a woman (or male prostitute) meets those requirements for consent:

In the context of prostitution, none of those three conditions can be completely met. Women in prostitution do not choose their clients (except in anecdotal blog stories);

A prostitute that isn't being coerced by a pimp can choose to deny a potential client. This happens all the time when they feel there is something off with the person. The prostitute makes the final decision. Under the author's bizarre reasoning, anyone providing a service is not consenting if the client approaches them. It's ridiculous.

they do not choose the timing; and, in most cases, they have hardly any freedom to determine the nature of the acts performed.

That's false. The woman tells the client what she is willing and unwilling to do for money. As for timing, the woman chooses when she's available and sets the price for time spent together, and if not specifically the time then the price for act/s requested.

Forced sex, even in cases that include some version of consent, is obviously traumatic to those involved.

Unless there is coercion it's not forced sex.

Most of us intuitively understand that when one’s livelihood and economic survival are dependent on having sex with partners who were not chosen, in a timing and manner that were also not chosen, it can be mentally and emotionally damaging.

I agree that having sex with random men for money (and not for money) is psychologically damaging but the reasons given - as I've shown above - are false. It's psychologically damaging because the woman understands they're basically an object, and that lowers there sense of personal value.

In the context of prostitution, none of those three conditions can be completely met. Women in prostitution do not choose their clients (except in anecdotal blog stories); they do not choose the timing; and, in most cases, they have hardly any freedom to determine the nature of the acts performed.[/B][/I]

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2018/12/2...-prostitution/

This article of whatever it is has an irrational argument, as I've shown. They're redefining words to suit themselves (such as what is force)

Well people have completely different views on this topic and whether a woman should be able to decide to end a pregnancy as it is her body that is needed to keep the pregnancy going. (I'm not going to get into the issue of abortion here but just wanted to use that as an example where people have a different view on consent).

Yes, people have different views and my view is based on reason. A heartbeat indicates life, does it not?

Yes and the same argument re the above can be used on whether it is society's business or not. Of course as a community people have to decide on a whole what is best for their society and sometimes people might feel this infringes on their personal rights.

It's not a question of whether people 'might feel' something infringes on their personal rights. It's a question of whether it does or doesn't. This is decided upon by a philosophical debate. Now whether the community cares or not about personal rights or do in some instances and not in others is a different issue (often it's a mix because most people are ruled by their emotions instead of reason).

My main points however with prostitution is whether there is actually consent under the circumstances.

Once again, unless there is coercion it's consent. Your article you posted did not provide a good argument.

Obviously people have very different opinions but I do think the points I have made are very valid and show that prostitution is not just something that occurs between two people.

Unless there is coercion it is between two people (or maybe three or even four if the guy is kinky).

It very rarely involves that and it is impossible for society to not get involved because of all the other crap and problems that prostitution brings with it.

Apparently, society is fine with all that crap because as we've acknowledged it often looks the other way. The cops in a town and city know what is going on. They know where the hookers are. They know where the hidden brothels are. They know which massage parlors has sex workers. They have their informants.

[oszkar07]

I have been reading your comments with an open ear until now, but liking this shit disqualifies you, oszkar.

Achtung Oda ,

Keep your reading glasses on and make sure you wipe the lenses when they get foggy.
The post you quoted and bolded, was written by Insuperable not by me.

He was responding to a post Blondie made which I also had liked and by proxy of his response to her post i upvoted him
but it is not reasonable of you to put his words into my mouth and attribute them to me.

It would be far more reasonable that you actually quote things that I have actually written rather than
attributing the words of others to me which is somewhat slanderous and presumptuous.

You have upvoted many posts but it would be probably unfair of me to tell you that the posts you upvoted have been
authored by you or even that the precise meaning of the authors words or intentions are exactly what you personally believe.

People upvote posts all the time that does not make the upvoter the author you can check that with
your lawyer friend Rothaer to see how that works even from a legal interpretation.

Of course I dont believe all women are prostitutes and I have not said this in any of my posts.

That said without question, what Blondie wrote in her post does hold truth concerning a lot of interactions between men and women and in a tenuous way it does also (in my oppinion) underly indirectly the ritual of women taking money from men as payment for sexual services.
For your clarification = Does that mean women in general are prostitutes in my view No.

[#Oda#]

Achtung Oda ,

Keeo your reading glasses on or make sure you wipe the lenses when they get blurry glasses.
The post you quoted and bolded, was written by Insuperable not by me.

He was responding to a post Blondie made which I also liked and by proxy of his response to her post i upvoted him
but it is not entirely reasonable of you to put his words in my mouth.
It would be far more reasonable that you actually quote things that I have actually written rather than attributing the words of others to me which is somewhat slanderous.

You have upvoted many posts but it would be probably unfair of me to tell you that the posts you upvoted have been
authored by you or eve that the entire meaning is exactly what you believe.

Of course I dont believe all women are prostitutes and I have not said this in any of my posts.

That said without question, what Blondie wrote in her post does hold truth concerning a lot of interactions between men and women nd in a tenuous way it does also underly indirectly the ritual of women taking money from men as payment for sexual services.

Well, you got me wrong. OF COURSE I knew it was written by Insuperable. I quoted it because you liked a comment containing that unbelievable sentence.
I dont have reading glasses btw.