Croatian man killed in Ireland "for speaking Croatian"

[Scarface F]

in a way my pen spillith /spilled over , i said too much , it is not my buisiness nor do i judge what is normal for others even if it may not be for me

I just find it amusing members here who openly spoke about their own or their family sexual liberalism now pretend to be shocked by ComsoLady eccentric and controversial relationship.

She isn't exploiting anyone, is capable to love and be loved and she has a good heart, and that is all that matters for me.

I'm sure she would have much more conventional lifestyle if her childhood was normal, and it wasn't, and that is not anyones fault.

[oszkar07]

Did I claim to speak for all women? No. Also I said that women that become prostitutes the majority of time have mental health issues or child sex abuse issues. I'm not making this up? I'm going on studies on prostitution. You're claiming things that I haven't said.

What kind of argument is it where you specify some highly dangerous jobs i.e. police, soldiers and use that as some reason not to try to control prostitution which is known for human trafficking of women and children. Also the very fact of being a prostitute makes them highly vulnerable and what they do is very risky which is why there is a high number of assaults and murders. Also as you know they are selling their bodies for sex. Yes they do experience violence because of the nature of what they do. They are highly vulnerable which is obvious to anyone and shouldn't need to be spelt out all the time. You use some odd logic where before you said because I'm against prostitution I should go speak to high class call girls and tell them to stop and now you are using the argument that being in the army or police is dangerous so why don't we ban those jobs? There is something wrong with that type of logic that you are using. Police and army personnel are trained for the dangers they go into and have psychological assessments so that they can weed out people with mental health issues. Police, army, paramedics and nurses are highly respected by the public and people admire them. That's not what happens with prostitutes who are looked down on as the dregs of society. I think the argument you are making is called a false equivalence.

I'm all for making prostitutes safer but even in controlled circumstances studies show it doesn't stop human trafficking. I'm amazed that people won't admit that the industry is highly exploitative and even if a woman is agreeing to it this does not mean she isn't being exploited. The majority of women aren't doing it because they enjoy it and if you think that anyone that is prostituting themselves will not have mental health issues your are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I don't know how anyone can think someone enjoys being degraded and having sex with multiple men, most of them who in other circumstance the woman wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Yes they love it and it is all their choice. No study has ever found that to be true.

You have a view that is two fold, meaning that it is a combination of 1) (to some extent valid objective data) and
2) very much your subjective biases and outlook. The subjective aspect can over fixate and over exxagerate aspects of the objective data.
Most humans will have a cognitive bias to things depending on their own person ex;eriences and feelings,worldview etc.

I have a multifaceted view, i said it in earlier post "mixed feelings".

On one hand I can feel incredibly sorry for the women who are trafficked or come from places of poverty where for them there may not be any
other options.

In another way I can see that there are a range of people in all different types of circumstances such as that there are women in the free world that completely choose to do some form of sex work even if only for a certain time in their life.

In another sense I can even resent those ones that do it of their own free will, that they are complicit in continuing this trade of vice, that they get rich from it ,yes some of them do earn incredible amounts of money believe it or not.

Many years ago when I visited Hungary , I was in the Capital and had a conversation with a guy that was older than me and the topic came up that there was a lot of prostitution in some parts of the city. The guy relayed a story he said " yeh its a terrible thing, said sometimes a married man goes out gets drunk at the pub then afterwards see's a hooker and spends in one night all of his wages that he would have needed to provide for his wife and kids. Ok sure we can rightfully say the guy acted incredibly irresponsibe that he got drunk lost control in the moment and blew all his wages , now we know people at casino's who are hopeless gamblers do the same thing many times. Now think well Grace you are expecting us to see you as a sensitive compassionate person and so far you described the victimness of the your perception of the women - but what about that guy , oh well you say he was stupid and it was his fault, ok sure, but dont you think that perhaps the hooker that took his money may have been not a stupid person, thats its a good chance that she knows many men come to her and spend more than they should and perhaps like that guy his wages that should have been to provide for his famly, ok you say not her business she needed the money you say , tough shit you say, but then now
we can consider things from all different angles cant we, perhaps then someone might say oh well all is fair in love and war or "it all comes out in the wash" but chances are she knew he may have been over spending and what impacts it may have had but did she care ? he was just another number to her, in reality he was also a "human being -even if he did something stupid" as is she, but to her he was another number as you say she was perhaps another number to men right ? Perhaps then someone might there is different ways to measure and balance and calculate things.

I dont think Prostitution is great , I dont actually have a high oppinion of Prostitutes to be honest.
But I dont think all of them are victims, I think some of them are very aware of what they do and they do it of their free will- that is true for online porno industry too specifically independent pornographers, and this is why I see some of the arguments around the topic as hypocritical.
On the other hand there is for sure a good proportion of them that are very much in a position that they had little choice for (but not all of them )

[Incal]

There is a lot of double standards i.e. women are sluts, whores etc yet what name would you call men who pay for sex and are the reason why there is a prostitution industry? Do you not agree there is some double standards in men's minds?

In all seriousness now, do you really believe that?

[Scarface F]

sometimes a married man goes out gets drunk at the pub then afterwards see's a hooker and spends in one night all of his wages that he would have needed to provide for his wife and kids. Ok sure we can rightfully say the guy acted incredibly irresponsibe that he got drunk lost control in the moment and blew all his wages , now we know people at casino's who are hopeless gamblers do the same thing many times.

These people also need to be protected from themselves (my view). So better to ban prostitution so stupid guy can't blew his wages on whores

Going to them illegaly is much bigger risk including criminal consequences

[Tooting Carmen]

In all seriousness now, do you really believe that?

Yes, demand creates supply, not the other way round.

[Incal]

Yes, demand creates supply, not the other way round.

So people always wanted coke or videogames, even before they were invented?

[CosmoLady]

Did I claim to speak for all women? No. Also I said that women that become prostitutes the majority of time have mental health issues or child sex abuse issues. I'm not making this up? I'm going on studies on prostitution. You're claiming things that I haven't said.

Yes, this is a regular tactic of his.

On one hand I can feel incredibly sorry for the women who are trafficked or come from places of poverty where for them there may not be any
other options.

In another way I can see that there are a range of people in all different types of circumstances such as that there are women in the free world that completely choose to do some form of sex work even if only for a certain time in their life.

Yes we all agree, this is obvious to the point of being banal.

But are you going to psycho-analyse and drug-test and investigate the life circumstances of every prostitute,
on every corner and at every brothel? No.

The most honest, most direct, least expensive, and least biased/arbitrary approach is to simply shut down these operations,
or heavily regulate and restrict them, and help the women find a decent job, home, therapy, etc.

People get killed in the job that I do.
Women who work in jobs as Police officers , Soldiers, Security guards, Paramedics, and even Nurses get killed in their line of work.

You are trying to compare prostitutes to HEROIC dangerous jobs that save people's lives?

And all of the above are trained to defend themselves legally, and nurses have guards that do NOT abuse them like pimps.

And violence against them is punished, is NOT normalised and widely under-reported like abuse in the sex industry.

In another sense I can even resent those ones that do it of their own free will, that they are complicit in continuing this trade of vice, that they get rich from it ,yes some of them do earn incredible amounts of money believe it or not.

How often is that? And surely they stay rich and do not blow all of their money on drugs and personal debts?

Many years ago when I visited Hungary , I was in the Capital and had a conversation with a guy that was older than me and the topic came up that there was a lot of prostitution in some parts of the city. The guy relayed a story he said " yeh its a terrible thing, said sometimes a married man goes out gets drunk at the pub then afterwards see's a hooker and spends in one night all of his wages that he would have needed to provide for his wife and kids. Ok sure we can rightfully say the guy acted incredibly irresponsibe that he got drunk lost control in the moment and blew all his wages , now we know people at casino's who are hopeless gamblers do the same thing many times. Now think well Grace you are expecting us to see you as a sensitive compassionate person and so far you described the victimness of the your perception of the women - but what about that guy , oh well you say he was stupid and it was his fault, ok sure, but dont you think that perhaps the hooker that took his money may have been not a stupid person, thats its a good chance that she knows many men come to her and spend more than they should and perhaps like that guy his wages that should have been to provide for his famly, ok you say not her business she needed the money you say , tough shit you say, but then now
we can consider things from all different angles cant we, perhaps then someone might say oh well all is fair in love and war or "it all comes out in the wash" but chances are she knew he may have been over spending and what impacts it may have had but did she care ? he was just another number to her, in reality he was also a "human being -even if he did something stupid" as is she, but to her he was another number as you say she was perhaps another number to men right ? Perhaps then someone might there is different ways to measure and balance and calculate things.

I dont think Prostitution is great , I dont actually have a high oppinion of Prostitutes to be honest.
But I dont think all of them are victims, I think some of them are very aware of what they do and they do it of their free will- that is true for online porno industry too specifically independent pornographers, and this is why I see some of the arguments around the topic as hypocritical.
On the other hand there is for sure a good proportion of them that are very much in a position that they had little choice for (but not all of them )

Many people are against gambling, too.

Like prostitution, gambling:

-contributes nothing to society
-promotes and feeds addiction
-feeds organised crime
-normalises corruption and crime (and casual violence against women in the case of prostitution, from the john or the pimp)
-attracts an unsavoury demographic element

And don't give me me examples of Las Vegas or rare rich prostitutes (who do not blow all of their money on drugs).

This is the broken window fallacy of economics.
"Breaking windows is AKSHUALLY good for the economy because it makes the glass-maker rich."

The truth is that prostitution, gambling and drugs do not create or add value,

they only take money away from the productive economy/society that would have been spent elsewhere.

A wise government incentivises its people to spend their money in more wholesome, beneficial ways.

You have a view that is two fold, meaning that it is a combination of 1) (to some extent valid objective data) and
2) very much your subjective biases and outlook. The subjective aspect can over fixate and over exxagerate aspects of the objective data.
Most humans will have a cognitive bias to things depending on their own person ex;eriences and feelings,worldview etc.

You have contributed zero objectivity or data to this discussion,

only lame memes, cliches, excuses, petty personal attacks, and moral relativism as incoherent as rambling sentences,

and banalities that everyone agrees with.

So spare us the lecture, please.

[Scarface F]

So people always wanted coke or videogames, even before they were invented?

They were invented because people want to play games and drink drinks other than water.

[Aldaris]

Yes, demand creates supply, not the other way round.

Of course. But we don't and shouldn't automatically permit all the things for which there is a demand. Plus, the supply in this case is usually doing it willingly.

[Blondie]

Of course. But we don't and shouldn't automatically permit all the things for which there is a demand. Plus, the supply in this case is usually doing it willingly.

I agree, but unfortunately that generates the black market and mafia. Its a vicious circle.