If Bell Beakers invaded Ireland how is it that many people there look distinct from other Europeans?

[Grace O'Malley]

Very interesting information as usual Grace!

Thanks for sharing it

Yes I think it is fascinating as well. I think it is because mountain ranges especially in the past were a barrier more than the sea. I would love if this was expanded looking at Finns and Basque as well.

[Beowulf]

Yes I think it is fascinating as well. I think it is because mountain ranges especially in the past were a barrier more than the sea. I would love if this was expanded looking at Finns and Basque as well.

Yes i agree i also think that the mountain factor is a very important one, and i guess probably the local resistance could be another factor (?) from what i've read the romans said that the local iberians were also a very war-like people and they resisted a couple of invasions from outside of the penninsula too so i wonder if this could have been something relevant for our isolation.

For Italy i don't really know though.

[Oliver109]

Now you're trolling. Show a group picture of Spanish people that look like Irish? So now you are saying Irish look more like Spanish than they look like Scots, Welsh or English? Please clarify?

And then the title says Irish look distinct from other Europeans. You're just trolling.

No i mean some Irish pass in Spain or look similar to some Spanish people but the large majority dont

[Septentrion]

Now you're trolling. Show a group picture of Spanish people that look like Irish? So now you are saying Irish look more like Spanish than they look like Scots, Welsh or English? Please clarify?

And then the title says Irish look distinct from other Europeans. You're just trolling.

He’s definitely wrong. The Irish look much more like British folks and other people of NW Europe such as the Dutch, Germans, Scandinavians, but also Belgians, Northern French, Swiss - Germans even some Eastern Europeans. As a whole, sorry but they are too pale to look like Spaniards or Portuguese or Italians. Only on individual basis may they look like them. Remember the GWAS study of pigmentation in four European countries (2012) show the Irish as a whole to be lighter in skin, hair and eye colours than Poles, Portuguese and Italians. The Irish just look “more European”.

[Septentrion]

No i mean some Irish pass in Spain or look similar to some Spanish people but the large majority dont

Nothing particular about that, there are Austrians, Belgians, British, Dutch, French, Germans, Russian, Romanian etc… who may pass as Spaniards on individual basis as well. Especially with the fact that all these are as a whole darker - complected than the Irish.

[Septentrion]

They still have much more recent mixing than a lot of other populations. In fact Spain and Italy has been more isolated from other Europeans over the last 2,000 years and also the Slavic countries have mixed more with other Slavic populations. There was a Europe wide study about this in 2013. However populations like the Basque and Finns weren't included and they would be a lot more isolated than Irish and Scots. But even with the Finns and Basques not been included the Irish and Scots were not the most isolated populations at all.

Anyway all this is obvious looking at genetic plots.






And yes it is true that the most diversity is in the Iberian Peninsula and the lowest in England and Ireland this is not the same as been isolated. As Iberia has less IBD sharing with other Europeans than the English and Irish have.



Both Italy and Iberia have low rates of IBD with other European populations.



https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...o-1001555-g005

Diversity across Britain and Ireland is reduced in comparison with mainland European populations! Iberia might have less IBD sharing with other Europeans, but perhaps share some with non - European people such as the Northern Africans. The reason why, there is a low haplotype diversity in the British Isles especially in Ireland and Scotland has to do with some isolation.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987482/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...genomes18%2C20.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ancestry-g...44043-Dec2017/

[Septentrion]

Ireland is said to be overwhelmingly Bell Beaker in genetic makeup but the fact is that people there still look extremely distinct to the Germans or Dutch or wherever the Beakers came from, a pure Brunn is extremely hard to find in continental Europe for example.

I’m thinking climate and relative isolation might be it. Why are the Irish so much lighter - complected than their mainland northern continental neighbors such as the Dutch, northern Germans, Belgians, Swedes, etc.. Note that the frequency of very light skin (type 1 and 2) is more than twice that of most Northern European countries which are usually blond or light - haired and also blue and light - eyed populations. The best example here would be Sweden, one of blondest nations on the planet still doesn’t come close to pale complexion of Ireland.

[celticdragongod]

Ireland is said to be overwhelmingly Bell Beaker in genetic makeup but the fact is that people there still look extremely distinct to the Germans or Dutch or wherever the Beakers came from, a pure Brunn is extremely hard to find in continental Europe for example.

That is because the Germans and Dutch experienced gene flow from other non-Beaker populations. The Irish are more genetically similar to the Bell Beakers.

[celticdragongod]

No i mean some Irish pass in Spain or look similar to some Spanish people but the large majority dont

That is because the Spanish are more closely related to Middle Eastern populations than are the Irish.

[Septentrion]

That is because the Spanish are more closely related to Middle Eastern populations than are the Irish.

No! Spaniards are much more closely related to other Southern European populations. While the Irish are very Northwestern European. That’s all. There’s no need to call up a weird Middle Eastern connection.