Turkey threatens France over stance on killing of Armenians by Ottomans

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Why are they building Holocaust memorials and monuments in America, Canada and Australia?

They ideally should not be made. 2 wrongs do not make one right.

But is because jews have strong lobby in such countries.

[Logan]

[QUOTE=Loki;640307]Turkey threatens France over stance on killing of Armenians by Ottomans

French parliament to debate proposal to prosecute people who deny mass killings were an act of genocide

QUOTE]

Same as the French attitude towards the Nazis.

[YOUTUBE]JYP2i8vF7C8[/YOUTUBE]

Solution. Own up.

[Joe McCarthy]

Why are they building Holocaust memorials and monuments in America, Canada and Australia?

I agree with that too. The US is not responsible for the Holocaust. If anyone is to blame it is Germany alone.

[Joe McCarthy]

If anything we should show some respect, even if grudging, to Turkey for refusing to succumb to ethnic shakedowns and let it create a guilt complex in their collective psyche. We Westerners succumbed to that nonsense long ago.

[TheBorrebyViking]

I agree with that too. The US is not responsible for the Holocaust. If anyone is to blame it is Germany alone.

The bombing of the railways, which stopped the food supply going to the camps, is not the USA's fault? Or do you mean it's not the UMS's(United Mexican States) fault?

[Panopticon]

Give me your definition of genocide first? Armenians were not slaughtered systematically, there were lots of Armenians in government positions over all the empire. It was not a situation of racial extermination. We never had an "Armenian problem" until they started siding with the russians. Many of these "civilians" were arming themselves with the Russia. They were trying attrition war. It didn't work for them.

I'm too lazy to define it myself so I'll just quote Wikipedia: "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group". Turkey did systematically slaughter Armenians so there was a genocide.

[Panopticon]

delete

[PBachman]

Nice logic there: "they asked for it so they got it". You can't argue against the fact that the Armenian genocide is real because they somehow had provoked their genocide and therefore according to broken logic or just cynical denial deserved it. They might've provoked it but that doesn't change that there were 1-1.5 million Armenian deaths, of which most were civilians that were slaughtered systematically.

I hope France recognises the Armenian genocide and the rest of the countries who haven't as well. That would be one step closer to a world where truth isn't denied due to politics.

As I agree with you, when arguing with Turks it is must to highlight that, if indeed, "Armenians had provoked them", why did the the Armenian intellectuals and industrialist willing go along with Young Turk government? The Armenian population in Turkey, willingly, gave up their weapons and joined Turks in the war effort. However, the Turks worked the Armenian regiments to death via labor camps. Even to the end, the Armenians in Turkey supported the Young Turk regime, as within these labor camps there was no attempt to rebel. It makes no sense to claim they "provoked it". The Armenians in Turkey, as a whole, did not really want to get involved in any armed conflict.

I view the Christian genocide in Turkey as a state sponsored genocide against its Turkish nationals. It was a Turkish genocide on Turkish Christians. Viewed from this lens, it makes sense why Turks need to repatriate their Christian populations back in the region, provide compensation, and return any confiscated asset.

However, the problem is not so much that it is an "insult to Turkishness", rather, the major political elite in Turkey have roots in the Young Turk regime. Essentially, most of the characters were prevalent in the formation of the modern republic. And in fact, if you dig deep enough, there are oil interest that were tied to the great game between England, Russia, and bankers. All these conflicts, have a economic catalyst. At the time, Armenians were clustered around oil and potential routes of oil. As seeing how Armenians are entrepreneurs and had experience developing the oil industry in the Middle-East, it quite possible, was the reason why the intellectuals and elite were murdered, as well as, the rest of the 1 to 1.5 million Armenians.

[PBachman]

I'm too lazy to define it myself so I'll just quote Wikipedia: "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group". Turkey did systematically slaughter Armenians so there was a genocide.

Yes, it was systematic. The very fact that they had planned to "relocate" the Christian population, providing armed guards, and etc., goes to show the extent of the planning. The very fact that they then hired Kurds or bargained the national self-determination of Kurds for the genocide of Christians, is indeed, a systematic; therefore, Genocide. It can't be compared to colonialism or even the Holocaust. As with all Genocides, there are similarities, but all have unique characteristics.

Going back, I hope everyone watches Grandma's Tattoos. They even had a systematic way of stealing children. As the good looking girls and boys were taken up; adopted in the case of boys and married to 70 year old Turks in the case of girls. The rest were used as sex slaves and etc. The ones that died on the death marches had it easy. It was the children that were "saved" by Turks and Kurds that had it worse. It is even documented that they used some girls as incubators. Pumping out children.

[Joe McCarthy]

LOL Joe you don't seem to be as strict when it comes to your beloved jewish lobby.

I've repeatedly stated I want all foreign lobbies outlawed in the US.