Spain....The Motherland of Celts.

[Duffmannn]

[Grace O'Malley]

Well, you Iberians can be modeled as half neolithic Iberians and half Dutch Bell Beaker culture that both the Celts and Germanic peoples diverged from.

Bell Beaker yes but I'm not sure if it is Dutch Bell Beaker. The reason being the subclade and autosomal of Iberian Bell Beakers. Of course we need more samples and information on this. I think there is a lot of information missing so far.

I think there is a clue in all these different subclades and their dominance in certain areas. Just looking at this I think L21 Beakers took a different route than DF27 Beakers. I mean that's fairly obvious. There is discussion about Dutch Bell Beakers being an off shoot of Corded Ware because they are similar to Corder Ware autosomally.

What is also interesting is the name Bell Beaker. Are all the Bell Beakers the same? Possibly but possibly not also. We know that the older Bell Beakers that were in Spain are not the same Bell Beakers i.e. the ones carrying DF27 into Spain and the other Bell Beakers. The older ones had no R1b and were like Farmers without Steppe. I find it all very interesting and there is still a lot we don't know.

[Dick]

Bell Beaker yes but I'm not sure if it is Dutch Bell Beaker. The reason being the subclade and autosomal of Iberian Bell Beakers. Of course we need more samples and information on this. I think there is a lot of information missing so far.

I think there is a clue in all these different subclades and their dominance in certain areas. Just looking at this I think L21 Beakers took a different route than DF27 Beakers. I mean that's fairly obvious. There is discussion about Dutch Bell Beakers being an off shoot of Corded Ware because they are similar to Corder Ware autosomally.

What is also interesting is the name Bell Beaker. Are all the Bell Beakers the same? Possibly but possibly not also. We know that the older Bell Beakers that were in Spain are not the same Bell Beakers i.e. the ones carrying DF27 into Spain and the other Bell Beakers. The older ones had no R1b and were like Farmers without Steppe. I find it all very interesting and there is still a lot we don't know.

Via Global 25 they can be modeled as 50% Dutch Bell beakers but G25 isn't the bible of genetics anyway.

[Grace O'Malley]

Via Global 25 they can be modeled as 50% Dutch Bell beakers but G25 isn't the bible of genetics anyway.

Yes but I'm sure there are better models. I don't think that Bell Beakers that got to Spain were autosomally the same as Dutch Bell Beakers. It is also interesting with the different subclades. Why were all the Bell Beakers that we've seen so far in Britain L21? I think we need more information to see what happened. Possibly they were all from one group but I personally don't think so. There should be more mixed ydna in other areas for starters. I'm sure with more studies we will understand this all more clearly.

I mean they could have all started out as one group but no L21 other than in the British Beakers has been found in ancient dna yet. At least with DF27 it has been found in German Bell Beakers and U152 has been found in the Italic samples in Italy. I think one of the Hallstatt Celts was also U152. I just hope we don't have to wait too long for more information.

I know that there if a French study coming out in March (hopefully) looking at ancient genomes. I hope that has lots of information. There is also Cassidy's study from Ireland that should be available in May looking at Neolithic to Early Bronze Age. That one will have lots of information including ydna. I'm sure there will be more from Spain also.