Welsh firmly back Britain's Union

[Argyll]

Your a yank. Keep your neb out.

I'm not saying that it was true, I was saying that it was what I heard. No need to start flinging insults or anything.

[Pyramidologist]

When everyone wants to get out of the Euro they want to get in....nice move.

They should look where it got Ireland.

SNP are just hypocrits. They want to leave the British union, but want closer ties with Europe. So much for them caring about preserving Scottish interests and culture when they want to be more continental European. The party is just anglophobic, it just hates the union because of the tensions in the past hundreds of years ago with England, that's its entire basis.

[Albion]

3.5%, Not that much dfferen't to England. I think it shows more about the Unionist Party, Labour. Compared to a Separatist party SNP. Time to bin Labour.

The problem is that those figures for the English regions aren't exactly amazing either. English regions range from populations the size of Wales all the way up to on a par with Scotland.
London clearly gets more than its fair share.

if Luxembourg

They do it by getting rich foreigners to move their. Look at how many real Luxembourgers are left and you'll see why that'd be bad for Wales.

Slovenia can do it so can we.

Austria, Germany and Italy have poured money in the place. England would likely do so if Wales broke away. New business opportunities and all.

If Scotland goes (and it is still an if), then the United Kingdom in which we live will cease to exist. It will float away into the history books as suddenly and permanently as the Ottoman Empire and the Soviet Union. If England, Wales and Northern Ireland wish to remain linked by a political union, it would have to be a completely new union; with a different constitution and, yes, even a different flag.

I doubt it will change much sadly. The UK without Scotland would likely still have NI, England and Wales. If NI left then England and Wales in all likelihood would stay united, it'd be a lot simpler then - the new country could just be a federation of "England & Wales".
I don't think Scotland leaving would lead to equal devolved powers across the UK, it will never be a real federation.

The days of Wales being treated as a province of a Greater England ended with devolution and there can be no going back.

Because economically it is, it needs London, Bristol, Birmingham and Liverpool more than England needs Wales.
I'm not entirely sure about self-government though, I think Wales actually does set a lot of its own policies, I think the whole "we're England's lackey" thing is all in Welsh insecurities.
I think there's a definite trait amongst the Welsh which likes to think the worst of their situation, there's the same in parts of the North and Midlands in England.

But a continuing Anglo-Welsh union is another if. It could well be that it is the English - the modern, post-imperial English - question the point of such a union.

Well yes, but the English hardly think about Wales as they do Scotland. Wales is generally liked, tolerated at worst.
I don't think that England would force Wales away of Scotland and NI left the union.

The government of Wales (both in Cardiff and London) does spend more than it takes in taxes from Wales. So the awkward truth here in Wales is that the English do subsidise us - up to a point, anyway. As a proud Welshman - as a proud man in fact - I don't think this is fair or desireable for anyone.

Parts of England subsidise other parts, a few knobs from London a few years back said it'd be better if the Northern English, Welsh and Scottish just abandoned the rest of the UK and went to live in the South East!
England (particularly the South and Midlands) may subsidise some areas of the UK now, but in the not too distant past areas such as Wales and Northern England were hugely important to the British economy.
The situation has parallels in Belgium between Flanders and Wallonia, only the Flemish mimic the English more but they want out.

Wales can be a viable state, but I think an increasing sense of English identity over the border may make any Welsh desire for independence a moot point.

Scottish independence would be a wakeup call for the English and make them actually consider "Britishness" and their identity.
But it won't happen, because I'm pretty sure Scotland won't vote for it.

Being in the UK, with the Barnett formula, creates a comfort zone. No responsibilities. It would mean you're going to spend, spend, spend. Having full fiscal control, would force people to think differently. Learn from mistakes.

Yes, the regions of the UK have contributed to the bloated public sector for example. I think that the country actually needs to learn about fiscal efficiency and living within its budget.

Wales is devolved like Treffie says, yes. But we're still taking pocket money from London. That in my opinion, isn't a good form of devolution.

Indeed, but it is whether NI and Wales could survive on the taxes they'd raise themselves or not.

[Graham]

As far as the SNP are concerned, they are an independence party. They don't have control of immigration.
The SNP have a wide spectrum of opinion from left to right. If independent, there's a good chance the SNP could cease to exist. Making this irrelevant.

But anyway, the topic is about the wonderful country of Wales. Not about us, nor Immigration. So that's that for myself.

[Albion]

Exactly so. We're getting the best of both worlds; I can understand the growing sense of resentment that many English people feel.

The English feel like we're being screwed - Westminster hardly acknowledges us whilst Wales, Scotland and NI can look after their citizens and improve things for themselves. It's not purely about money.

I think it's important, at this point, to try and make sure this debate doesn't simply become an economic argument. It always tends to do this, principally, because the unionists think it is their strongest argument.

For example, independence for Ireland never made economic sense, but the Irish people wanted it. The reunification of Germany in the early 1990s was always going to be a huge economic burden for West Germany, but it was what all the German people desired. The economic argument is important, but it is also important to remember that man cannot live by bread alone.

Agreed.

As I've said, I believe that, if there is to be no post-Scotland union, it will be an English decision, not a Welsh one. We may well end up like Belarus or Moldova: a nation that wasn't clamouring for independence, but which nevertheless had independence thrust upon it.

I very much doubt it. Wales and NI will probably stay attached to England unless they ask for independence.
The UK without Scotland would still function much the same.

They love Muslims, but hate the ethnic-english.

I know, typical multiculturalist BS. Those kinds of people usually preach to us all about how we should love other ethnicities but usually they hate Western ethnicities themselves.

When I heard this, it took me by surprise. From the Welsh people that I know, they are clear seperatists and you always hear about the Welsh wanting independence.

From all the Welsh Nationalist blogs I've visited you'd think that Wales was practically begging for independence. They do tend to write in a particularly anti-England way.

When everyone wants to get out of the Euro they want to get in....nice move.

They should look where it got Ireland.

That's the SNP for ya.

[poiuytrewq0987]

SNP are just hypocrits. They want to leave the British union, but want closer ties with Europe. So much for them caring about preserving Scottish interests and culture when they want to be more continental European. The party is just anglophobic, it just hates the union because of the tensions in the past hundreds of years ago with England, that's its entire basis.

Not at all... just because Scotland wants independence doesn't mean Scotland wants to be isolationist.

[Albion]

Reality's a bitch ain't it?



The enitire EU as a concept is fucked, the only difference is that Ireland unfortunately had a boom that attracted foreigners. I certainly didn't know any ordinary Irish people that saw the rewards of some bogus "Celtic Tiger" the rich got richer and opened the doors to immigration while they were at it. No more boom = less immigration and life continues as normal for the average person. The poorer the better I say, as far as conservation of a people goes it's about the best thing to have on your side (the perception at least)

There was a report on Marxism Today (RT) once before that tried to paint it as if the Irish had been buying up properties left, right and centre.

They are a civic nationalist party. They think blacks or other immigrants are as Scottish as the indigenous Scottish people, which is of course potty. They also love Muslims and support Islamification.

The problem is that the main unionist parties (Liebour, Conservatives and Liberal undemocratics) aren't any different.

SNP are just hypocrits. They want to leave the British union, but want closer ties with Europe. So much for them caring about preserving Scottish interests and culture when they want to be more continental European. The party is just anglophobic, it just hates the union because of the tensions in the past hundreds of years ago with England, that's its entire basis.

I'm sorry Graham, he does make a few good points there. The SNP have recently been trying to "reach out" to the English by raising questions about English devolution and claiming England would be better alone (it serves their purpose).
Before that they relied on alienating the English alone, now they're our best friends all of a sudden. Oh Salmond, you fucking liar.

As far as the SNP are concerned, they are an independence party. They don't have control of immigration.

The problem is that if you oppose immigration you worry the ethnic minorities, the pro-immigration factions and then get slurred by the media.
A party can only become mainstream in the UK if it accepts the immigrants or else people won't vote for it, fearing that they'd be voting for something like the BNP.
It's sad, but that's how bad I think it's become. Political parties have to be kind to the immigrants now, which is why immigration reform is always a delicate issue. The multiculturalist retards come out all guns blazing as soon as something is done.


When is this topic going to get back to Wales anyway?

[Treffie]

I'm not entirely sure about self-government though, I think Wales actually does set a lot of its own policies, I think the whole "we're England's lackey" thing is all in Welsh insecurities.

The devolved powers in Wales are as follows;

Agriculture, fisheries, forestry and rural development
Ancient monuments and historic buildings
Culture
Economic development
Education and training
Environment
Fire and rescue services and promotion of fire safety
Food
Health and health services
Highways and transport
Housing
Local government
Public administration
Social welfare
Sport and recreation
Tourism
Town and country planning
Water and flood defence
Welsh language

Parts of England subsidise other parts, a few knobs from London a few years back said it'd be better if the Northern English, Welsh and Scottish just abandoned the rest of the UK and went to live in the South East!

Herein lies the problem. There is a massive brain drain from these regions towards the south-east of England, the problem is particularly acute in Wales.

[Albion]

The devolved powers in Wales are as follows;

Agriculture, fisheries, forestry and rural development
Ancient monuments and historic buildings
Culture
Economic development
Education and training
Environment
Fire and rescue services and promotion of fire safety
Food
Health and health services
Highways and transport
Housing
Local government
Public administration
Social welfare
Sport and recreation
Tourism
Town and country planning
Water and flood defence
Welsh language

It seems reasonable enough to me.

Herein lies the problem. There is a massive brain drain from these regions towards the south-east of England, the problem is particularly acute in Wales.

The South East isn't such a draw now though. The cost of living is sky high.

[Treffie]

The South East isn't such a draw now though. The cost of living is sky high.

It still is, especially for professionals straight out of university. Compare the opportunities in the south-east of England against those in Wales.