Worst battle defeat in European and Western history?

[Joe McCarthy]

I'm saying my opinion as Bulgarian. This battle scared our Tzars enough that in 1394 Tarnovo fell and in 1396 Vidin fell with which Bulgarian kingdom stopped existing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis

The Battle of Nicopolis is also widely regarded as the end of the Second Bulgarian Empire, since hopes for its salvation had come to an end with the defeat of the Crusaders.

By their victory at Nicopolis, the Turks discouraged the formation of future European coalitions against them. They maintained their pressure on Constantinople, tightened their control over the Balkans, and became a greater threat to central Europe

How does the Battle of Kosovo, which was tactically inconclusive, resulted in heavy losses on both sides, and which slowed the Ottoman advance compare to Nicopolis, especially for Bulgaria?

[Kanuni]

Battle of Yarmouk

[Joe McCarthy]

Battle of Yarmouk

Good one. I should have included it in the poll. Its main effect was to firmly establish Islam as a global power player:

George F. Nafziger, in his book Islam at war, describes the battle as:

“ Although Yarmouk is little known today, it is one of the most decisive battles in human history...... Had Heraclius' forces prevailed, the modern world would be so changed as to be unrecognizable

[пустиняк]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nicopolis



How does the Battle of Kosovo, which was tactically inconclusive, resulted in heavy losses on both sides, and which slowed the Ottoman advance compare to Nicopolis, especially for Bulgaria?

I'm telling that Kosovo battle was reason for weakening of Bulgarian Tzardoms that's why I say is important.

[Nglund]

Gallipoli ...

[Joe McCarthy]

Gallipoli ...

Yes, and German General Otto Liman von Sanders was the Stefan Lazarevic of the twentieth century. He prepared Ottoman defenses and was the guy who promoted a then little known Turkish officer named Mustafa Kemal to head the 19th division which saved the Turks. The result was that Constantinople was not recaptured as planned.

I suppose the Germanophiles can take heart though. Von Sanders' father was Jewish.

[Nglund]

I suppose the Germanophiles can take heart though. Von Sanders' father was Jewish.

Those damn j00s! Bashing fellow germanics in Anatolia proper!
Alright, I must admit they did a good job countering the Allies...but an Ottoman jihad? Afghan independence? Allowing Lenin to wreck the Russian Empire beyond recognition? Man, Germany's policies were downright awful.

[InvaderNat]

From the list I'd say Nicopolis - the Crusaders should have been able to push them back but were too unorganized (probably because their were too many different nationalities in their army).

Overall though I'd say the battle of Singapore in 1942. It was the first time a non-European side had won a major land battle against a colonial power.
The British-led commonwealth fought appallingly despite outnumbering the Japanese 85,000 to 36,000...not one of our proudest battles.

[Rollo]

I don't think that the fall of Constantinople was so embarrassing. The city was besieged numerous times since its foundation, but it was never conquered. After Theodosius II built the walls in the early 5th century, only gunpowder would bring down the city, as in 1453. Plus, the Byzantines were completely broke after Justinians reconquest of the West, so their constant defeats at the hands of the Arabs and Turks were inevitable.

It is funny that the list of embarrassing defeats is so small though. I cannot think of one country outside of Europe that has never been ruled over by a European nation at one point in time

[SwordoftheVistula]

None of these were really consequential. Most of these regard Italians & Russians, and there are debates over whether they are actually 'western/European'. Carthaginians were probably 'western/European', and ended up losing the war, as did many of the battles listed here.

All of the military defeats of pro-western forces have come at the hands of other 'western' forces. The west/Europe has decayed entirely from internal problems.

The result was that Constantinople was not recaptured as planned.

My Greek roommate told me the other day that the Greeks actually captured Constantinople in post WWII fighting, but the western powers forced them to give it back to Turkey. I have not had time to read up on this yet, but he definitely places the blame on the British & other western powers for the loss of Constantinople in 1920 or so (if they actually took it, I have yet to read up and research this)