Worst battle defeat in European and Western history?

[Joe McCarthy]

Why is Battle of Mohi even on there?

25,000 Hungarians vs 25,000-30,000 Mongols.

It was a defeat but faarrr from one to be considered the worst defeat in history.

The consequences of Mohi was to see much of the Hungarian population slaughtered. The Mongols made the NKVD seem like really friendly people.

[GeistFaust]

Out of all the battles you have listed it appears some of the worst defeats in terms of political consequences, military losses, and psychological defeat are the battles of Cannae and Carrahae. Adwa was another pretty big loss not just for Italy, but for European colonialism and nationalism. It was then that a decline began in Europe being considered the geo-political center of the world, which is still a process unravelling itself today.


Also in this battle the Ethiopians had some Russian support, and a lot of their weapons were supplied by European powers. The Italians stood no chance given the quantity of men they had, the terrain they were fighting on, their espirtu de corps, and finally their weaponry was outdated. It was 17,000 men against 100,000. Cannae though was completely devastating for Rome in so many ways.


Anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000 men lost their lives, and 80 senators were killed as Livy reports along with some former Consul men, and Paulus himself who was Consul that year. The Romans were basically fighting an army that was 1/2th their size, and the Carthaginians were quite battle weary after three previous victories.


The Carthaginians had the upper hand in Calvary, and that was the undoing of the Romans along with Hannibal's double envelop, which clinched the victory. There was chaos and confusion in Rome, and the Roman countryside afterwards.


This was the period when Rome was put to the test, and it succeeded to keep some of its allies while maintaining the order of the government. That said they tried to avoid fighting the Carthaginians for a while after this, and played it safe by only engaging in a war of attrition.


Carrahae was big, because it halted the Roman advance to the East, and it led to Caesar's civil war against Pompey, which was brought about by the death of Crassus.

[Peyrol]

I am familiar with the matter of Adua, a brother of my great-grandfather was there and wrote very detailed reports about campaign: most of the troopers were eritrean or somali mercenaries with dated weapons and not a very spirit of group (coming from different ethnicities). Plus, general Baldissera underestimated the supplies of weapons of Western powers (especially by Russian and British) to Ethiopians.

But, define this "worst defeat for the west" it's a bit exaggerated, counting that 40 years after general Graziani conquered ethiopia with 330.000 soldiers against 600,000 ethiopians armed by british and french.

[GeistFaust]

I am familiar with the matter of Adua, a brother of my great-grandfather was there and wrote very detailed reports about campaign: most of the troopers were eritrean mercenaries with dated weapons and not a spirit of group (coming from different ethncicities). Plus, general Baldissera underestimated the supplies of weapons of Western powers (especially by Russian and British) to Ethiopians.

This makes sense, but even if there were Italian troops fighting it they would have still had a tough time against an army about 5 to 10 times bigger than their own.

The weapons the Russians and British supplied played a big role along with the terrain they had the battle played out on.


The Espirtu de corps was greatly maligned in this battle, but unfortunately the Ethiopians get too much credit for winning that battle.

[Peyrol]

This makes sense, but even if there were Italian troops fighting it they would have still had a tough time against an army about 5 to 10 times bigger than their own.

The weapons the Russians and British supplied played a big role along with the terrain they had the battle played out on.


The Espirtu de corps was greatly maligned in this battle, but unfortunately the Ethiopians get too much credit for winning that battle.

British armed ethiopian because they didn't want an italian expansion in the Horn of Africa, because with the annexation of Ethiopia 5/6 of the Horn of Africa would be in our hands (that happened in 1936).

[Joe McCarthy]

This makes sense, but even if there were Italian troops fighting it they would have still had a tough time against an army about 5 to 10 times bigger than their own.

The weapons the Russians and British supplied played a big role along with the terrain they had the battle played out on.


The Espirtu de corps was greatly maligned in this battle, but unfortunately the Ethiopians get too much credit for winning that battle.

Proportionally speaking Adowa was arguably the worst loss for a European army in casualties of any battle in the 19th century. It was comparable to Waterloo. It was also a case of Italy being the only European power to fail in its colonization attempt against an African state during the Scramble for Africa, the peak of European imperial prominence and Western ascendancy in general. As you noted the Italian loss has been cited as the beginning of the Decline of the West.

[Peyrol]

Proportionally speaking Adowa was arguably the worst loss for a European army in casualties of any battle in the 19th century. It was comparable to Waterloo. It was also a case of Italy being the only European power to fail in its colonization attempt against an African state during the Scramble for Africa, the peak of European imperial prominence and Western ascendancy in general. As you noted the Italian loss has been cited as the beginning of the Decline of the West.

Phew, usual colonial anti italian propaganda, because we took ethiopia in 1936.

Actually the decline of the west started in 1945 and become complete in 1991, with the end of the Cold War. 9/10 of the nationalists in Europe think this.

[Peyrol]

However, it's funny that all are saying "Adua, adua, incapable italians, etc", but no one mentioned the big british defeat against Zulu in South Africa as symbol of colonial failures...

[Libertas]

Funny how the defeat at Adowa in 1896 failed to arouse other Africans (or any other non-whites) to rebel against European domination.

It was the Japanese victory over Tsarist Russia in 1904-05 that put paid to theories of European invincibility in Asia and Africa.

[Peyrol]

Funny how the defeat at Adowa in 1896 failed to arouse other Africans (or any other non-whites) to rebel against European domination.

It was the Japanese victory over Tsarist Russia in 1904-05 that put paid to theories of European invincibility in Asia and Africa.

After russian-japanese war, not for nothing was invented the term "Yellow Peril".