How Western is Russia?

[Joe McCarthy]

I think Russia can become Western, but it'll take a desire to do so, the removal of the Eurasianist and Putinist factions, another leader like Peter, or maybe a Russian Ataturk. Certainly they have fewer obstacles than Turkey did when they abolished the Caliphate.

I have some hope this can be done as much of the young, educated middle class is looking West. With enough effort, and some luck, history will pass Vladimir Putin by.

[beaver]

"I think Russia can become Western, but it'll take a desire to do so, the removal of the Eurasianist and Putinist factions, another leader like Peter, or maybe a Russian Ataturk. Certainly they have fewer obstacles than Turkey did when they abolished the Caliphate.

I have some hope this can be done as much of the young, educated middle class is looking West. With enough effort, and some luck, history will pass Vladimir Putin by".


Russia will never be Westrners and even wil not be even trying.

[Geronimo]

Here's an extremely rough draft of my perception of cultural regions in Northwestern Eurasia. I dropped some not to cram the map too much (e.g., Celtic or Iranian), and the borders are very approximate indeed - gradients would have been better, but then it would be difficult to make them overlap. I don't have the time to make a proper map, the main point is to illustrate the cultural influences in Russia and its neighbours - so I hope no one starts pointing out geographic flaws and takes it for what it is:


(the names are largely irrelevant, by the way, just treat the areas as coloured components)

P.S. Another definition of the West is roughly "anything fairly civilised and aligned to the US", ranging from the UK to Turkey to Japan. I find it a little pointless.

That's a good map, I just don't see the point of German+Eastern and Polish Medieval, maybe you can explain ...

[The Ripper]

Russians are a European nation, but they are not geopolitically western, and culturally they are Eastern European.

[Sarmatian]

I think Russia can become Western, but it'll take a desire to do so, the removal of the Eurasianist and Putinist factions, another leader like Peter, or maybe a Russian Ataturk. Certainly they have fewer obstacles than Turkey did when they abolished the Caliphate.

I have some hope this can be done as much of the young, educated middle class is looking West. With enough effort, and some luck, history will pass Vladimir Putin by.

I understand your intentions are very sincere and kind of noble. But I'll have to disappoint you - Russia will never become a part of Western Civilization.

First of all because it will never try. These 'young, educated middle class is looking West' are minority and will never have any significant impact on the course of Russia.

Secondly current geopolitical situation makes me to conclude the West as we know it now will die before Russia will have any chance to experience its 'superiority'.

"They're making the last film
they say it's the best
And we all helped make it
It's called the death of the West..."

[Joe McCarthy]

Russia will never be Westrners and even wil not be even trying.

Probably right. When states set out to fundamentally transform themselves it is because they feel inferior or threatened relative to a dominant alternative model. If Russia progresses economically as it is set to do it'll be content enough not to change.

Being a sort of white China in perpetuity should give any of us pause though. Certainly it will set the stage for conflict.

[Humanophage]

That's a good map, I just don't see the point of German+Eastern and Polish Medieval, maybe you can explain ...

German+Eastern denotes the areas of major German cultural influence in Eastern Europe, which pretty much covers all of it. It's generally related to Ostsiedlung, but not entirely limited to it. In this area:
- The German language was the foremost foreign language at one time - often still is;
- There was a prominent German minority, usually noble or involved in industry;
- Institutions were modelled after the German equivalents with the help of German specialists.

Polish Medieval denotes the area influenced chiefly by Muscovy and Poland. Some features:
- Defines the Eastern European world until the 18th century;
- The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at its greatest extent and its attempts at expansion;
- Areas of extensive interaction between Rus' and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

[The Ripper]

German+Eastern denotes the areas of major German cultural influence in Eastern Europe, which pretty much covers all of it. It's generally related to Ostsiedlung, but not entirely limited to it. In this area:
- The German language was the foremost foreign language at one time - often still is;
- There was a prominent German minority, usually noble or involved in industry;
- Institutions were modelled after the German equivalents with the help of German specialists.

Polish Medieval denotes the area influenced chiefly by Muscovy and Poland. Some features:
- Defines the Eastern European world until the 18th century;
- The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth at its greatest extent and its attempts at expansion;
- Areas of extensive interaction between Rus' and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

Germans played a major role in the history of Northern Europe as well, they were dominant in trade, there were German minorities in all ports, who acted mainly as merchants. German universities educated our nobles and theologians, etc.

[Comte Arnau]

Anything beyond Berlin and Vienna is European, but Eastern European.

[The Ripper]

Anything beyond Berlin and Vienna is European, but Eastern European.

Quite an arbitrary demarcation. Purely geographical?