View Poll Results: The Death Penalty ?

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  • For

    175 54.86%
  • Against

    85 26.65%
  • Other / Not decided / It depend

    59 18.50%
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Thread: Death Penalty...for or against?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Fox View Post
    I think we should distinguish between the death penalty as a government institution, and violent death as fitting punishment for horrible crimes.



    While I find the former to be horrendous, I'm in favour of the latter.

    I trust no government with the ability to decide who to put to death. However, I would support, for example, the right of parents of pedophiles' victims to go after the monsters and kill them.
    Should we not be dividing the government from the judiciary? Should they not be separate bodies? That would be the ideal, and for those I know who are chief mag's and judges, the very idea they would be crooked or swayed is horrific to them.

    I do agree with parental justice. Then again, I simply do not know what I would do anyone who hurt my child. I would go mad.

  2. #22
    Member Oisín's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow Cross View Post
    1, It does decrease crime at least slightly, there are people who do them because they know that not much will happen to them if they get caught.
    Have you got any proof that the death penalty lowers the crime rate? Post a link or something.
    Glaine ár gcroí - Neart ár ngéag - Beart de réir ár mbriathar


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
    Have you got any proof that the death penalty lowers the crime rate? Post a link or something.
    It's not 'proof', it's common sense. Are you equally likely to steal the neighbour's chicken when you have to pay its price when caught, and when you get one of your arms cut?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow Cross View Post
    It's not 'proof', it's common sense.
    So the answer to my question is no you don't have any proof.
    Are you equally likely to steal the neighbour's chicken when you have to pay its price when caught, and when you get one of your arms cut?
    You think people who steal chickens should have their arms cut off? There is a massive difference between people who commit murder being given the death penalty and chicken thieves, I don't know why you would try and compare the two.
    There is zero proof whatsoever that the death penalty acts as a deterrent.
    The Death Penalty is NOT a Deterrent
    The Death Penalty Deterrence Myth: No Solid Evidence That Killing Stops The Killing
    Death penalty no deterrent to murder
    The death penalty fails to deter crime.
    Glaine ár gcroí - Neart ár ngéag - Beart de réir ár mbriathar


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    Axis Hatemonger Arrow Cross's Avatar
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    Opinions of Internet bloggers aren't proving anything either. And no, I don't advocate that, it was an example in which I made a quite clear point about why capital punishment does deter certain people from committing crimes. I'm not saying the difference would be earth-shattering, as obviously certain people don't care, or have to do it, but the threat of death above one's head is certainly a persuasive force. If you can't see that, we have nothing to talk about on this topic.

    By the way, my example was a law of Saint Stephan, first king of Hungary, whose absolutely drastic new laws upon the state-founding dramatically decreased crime ratings, making order in a fresh state torn by chaos.
    Because violence does solve issues.

  6. #26
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    I have to agree with Arrow Cross in that it does deter. This is based on remembered conversations with my grandparents, both born in the late 1800s, who grew up when the death penalty in Britain was still in place. People did fear and respect it. In fact, given that in the past here, sentences in general were stiffer and actually given, then I think overall the more severe the sentence, the more people would attempt to avoid it by thinking twice about crimes liable to get them such a sentence.
    Of course there will always be deviants who don`t care what happens to them or, more likely, refuse to believe it`ll happen to them, but then surely those are the very ones such sentences are meant for?
    Given their mentality, it appears that no matter what the sentence is, they`ll offend anyway. Surely better to take them out totally than be lenient and allow them the freedom to go on offending?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow Cross View Post
    Opinions of Internet bloggers aren't proving anything either.
    So when the facts don't suit your argument you just ignore them?
    Those links I posted are not opinions they are facts. I've given you four studies proving it doesn't lower the crime rate. You said the death penalty lowers the crime rate, prove it. There is zero evidence to show the death penalty prevents murder or any other crime, to say otherwise is to lie.
    And no, I don't advocate that, it was an example in which I made a quite clear point about why capital punishment does deter certain people from committing crimes.
    You didn't make any point as far as I can tell.
    I'm not saying the difference would be earth-shattering, as obviously certain people don't care, or have to do it, but the threat of death above one's head is certainly a persuasive force.
    Even though all studies show that it is not a persuasive force?
    If you can't see that, we have nothing to talk about on this topic.
    If you want me to see the merits of your argument then show some evidence that backs it up. I'm not going to accept something as the truth just because you say it is so. You're entitled to your opinion and to support the death penalty and I have no problem with that, my problem is that you're trying to present your own personal opinion as fact even though it's not.
    There are plenty of arguments for and against the death penalty but saying it lowers the crime rate is false, it's an outright lie and telling lies doesn't do your argument any favour.
    By the way, my example was a law of Saint Stephan, first king of Hungary, whose absolutely drastic new laws upon the state-founding dramatically decreased crime ratings, making order in a fresh state torn by chaos.
    Source?
    Because violence does solve issues.
    Glaine ár gcroí - Neart ár ngéag - Beart de réir ár mbriathar


  8. #28
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    Arrow Cross's common sense view on this matter is valid. If a potential offender knows they will be put to death as opposed to receiving a pathetic prison sentence for committing various crimes, of course a number, regardless of how small, will think twice. The issue of deterrence aside, the death penalty is also a fitting punishment. I see no reason why murderers, rapists, paedophiles and so on, should be allowed a relatively comfortable existence in prison, particularly considering that many will have a chance at parole.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oresai View Post
    I have to agree with Arrow Cross in that it does deter. This is based on remembered conversations with my grandparents, both born in the late 1800s, who grew up when the death penalty in Britain was still in place. People did fear and respect it. In fact, given that in the past here, sentences in general were stiffer and actually given, then I think overall the more severe the sentence, the more people would attempt to avoid it by thinking twice about crimes liable to get them such a sentence.
    Of course there will always be deviants who don`t care what happens to them or, more likely, refuse to believe it`ll happen to them, but then surely those are the very ones such sentences are meant for?
    Given their mentality, it appears that no matter what the sentence is, they`ll offend anyway. Surely better to take them out totally than be lenient and allow them the freedom to go on offending?
    I've yet to see any evidence that it does deter. My grandparents were alive when there was a death penalty and there was a much lower murder rate, that wasn't because everyone secretly wanted to murder people but were deterred by the possibility of getting caught, it was because society was a hell of a lot different back then. There weren't any drugs around, people were religious, they were hard-working, there was a sense of community and people had values and respect for each other. Re-introducing the death penalty for murderers will certainly mean that if caught they wont kill again but it will do nothing to remedy the problems of society that have caused us to have such out of control crime in the first place.
    Glaine ár gcroí - Neart ár ngéag - Beart de réir ár mbriathar


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loyalist View Post
    Arrow Cross's common sense view on this matter is valid. If a potential offender knows they will be put to death as opposed to receiving a pathetic prison sentence for committing various crimes, of course a number, regardless of how small, will think twice. The issue of deterrence aside, the death penalty is also a fitting punishment. I see no reason why murderers, rapists, paedophiles and so on, should be allowed a relatively comfortable existence in prison, particularly considering that many will have a chance at parole.
    The argument that it is a fitting punishment is valid. The argument that it is a deterrent is not.
    Glaine ár gcroí - Neart ár ngéag - Beart de réir ár mbriathar


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