Luxembourgers - who are they?

[The Lawspeaker]

I suppose it'd perhaps become a French department, that's better than it being divided between three countries anyway.
Thanks for explaining it to me, it's good to get the opinions of an actual Walloon instead of biased Flemish or foreign opinions.

Joining France would be a good idea to ensure the destruction of Walloon culture and their ethnic identity since France, with it's traditions of Jacobinism and centralisation has already wrecked and Parisinafied just about every French region and they would definitely dump all the immigrants there (and their offspring then can't be dislodged anymore because of the French nationality laws).

I'm not sure about the German towns though, France controls Alsace so I don't think it'd have any reservations about including them.

France includes Martinique and Reunion and as such France never has any problems in controlling non-French places. Look at South Flanders, for example.

Whatever happens, I think Wallonia should stay as one entity. From what I've seen of it; it looks like a nice region.

Definitely.

[Ouistreham]

Joining France would be a good idea to ensure the destruction of Walloon culture and their ethnic identity

Joining France would we the only way to ensure preservation of Walloon culture and identity.

Dutch language dictatorship has no equivalent in the world.

In Belgian Flanders, there are towns with overwhelming French speaking minorities, but their elected mayors are not recognized as such if they happen to speak the language of their voters. Any decision met in any city council is deemed illegal if some French words have been used under the debate. Culture jacobinism is a Dutch/Flemish specialty.

If Dutch/Flemish culture was something important no one would mind. But what has this inferior culture given to Europe, expect for Anne Franks Dagboek???

BTW how come a thread about Luxembourg is inserted into the NL department?

[Albion]

BTW how come a thread about Luxembourg is inserted into the NL department?

Because there's no Belgian or Luxembourg sections. I suppose i could equally have put it in German or French sections though.

Maybe a Belgium and Luxembourg section should be made, subdivided into Luxembourg, Wallonia and Flanders. Currently the first two have to use the French section I suppose.

If Dutch/Flemish culture was something important no one would mind. But what has this inferior culture given to Europe, expect for Anne Franks Dagsboek???

This is what I love about the French, they think their own culture is far superior to all else. This is great for nationalism and preservationism, we could do with more of that thinking here.

Joining France would we the only way to ensure preservation of Walloon culture and identity.

Dutch language dictatorship has no equivalent in the world.

In Belgian Flanders, there are towns with overwhelming French speaking minorities, but their elected mayors are not recognized as such if they happen to speak the language of their voters. Any decision met in any city council is deemed illegal if some French words have been used under the debate. Culture jacobinism is a Dutch/Flemish specialty.

Civis has already said the same thing about them joining France. These arguments seem to be the same from both sides, we really need the opinions of actual Belgians and Luxembourgers rather than French and Dutch.

[The Lawspeaker]

Joining France would we the only way to ensure preservation of Walloon culture and identity.

Tell that to Flanders.

Dutch language dictatorship has no equivalent in the world.

That's why Frisian is our second language and why Limburgic is even used in the halls of the Limburgian parliament. Does the same go for Flemish and Breton in France ? No it doesn't.. and you know that too.

In Belgian Flanders, there are towns with overwhelming French speaking minorities, but their elected mayors are not recognized as such if they happen to speak the language of their voters. Any decision met in any city council is deemed illegal if some French words have been used under the debate. Culture jacobinism is a Dutch/Flemish specialty.

I think that the Flemish attitude there is wrong and we could learn from the Swiss.

BTW how come a thread about Luxembourg is inserted into the NL department?

Because there is no real Belgian/Luxembourg section. Something that I have been asking the team to create.

Here is the idea that I had:

Either a Netherlands & Belgium section modelled on the UK-section with it's own areas for the Netherlands and Belgium (subdivided into: Frisians, general Dutch issues) and Flanders, Wallonia. Or a general Low Countries or Benelux one modelled on the same - now also with Luxembourg added but no plans have been looked into so it seems but I will be pushing for it as it does do history a lot more justice.

[Tchek]

If Dutch/Flemish culture was something important no one would mind. But what has this inferior culture given to Europe, expect for Anne Franks Dagboek???

Actually, Dutch/Flemish culture is not an inferior culture at all... the conquest of America, the painters, the sailors, protestantism (in the case of NL), the architecture...
Now, that doesn't mean it should be shoven down everyone's throat.

Unfortunately I must say, the French education is totally silent toward the NL, for some reason... The French know about Italy, a little about England... but about Netherlands? I noticed that even among french historians, the Dutch revolt is almost unknown. For many French, the Netherlands is as known as Estonia or Slovakia, that's a bit sad.
Maybe the idea of Netherlands is fundamentally anti-French (the backfiring of Napoleon conquest?), I don't know.

[The Lawspeaker]

Actually, Dutch/Flemish culture is not an inferior culture at all... the conquest of America, the painters, the sailors, protestantism, the architecture...
Now, that doesn't mean it should be shoven down everyone's throat.

Like French culture. They have achieved a lot but their attitude ruins it all.

Unfortunately I must say, the French education is totally silent toward the NL, for some reason... The French know about Italy, a little about England... but about Netherlands? I noticed that even among french historians, the Dutch revolt is almost unknown. For many French, the Netherlands is as known as Estonia or Slovakia, that's a bit sad.
Maybe the idea of Netherlands is fundamentally anti-French (The backfiring of Napoleon conquest?), I don't know.

While the Dutch know France and they know it quite well. French is a compulsory subject too even though most (including myself) flunked it. It is maybe a sign of France's world view and maybe that explains a bit why the Netherlands (after focussing on France during the 16th to early 19th century) focussed on Britain and Germany and later on the United States instead.

Besides. Anne Frank ? Was born in Frankfurt, Germany. And didn't even have a Dutch passport.

Nom de naissance Annelies Marie Frank
Naissance 12 juin 1929
Francfort-sur-le-Main , République de Weimar
Décès Mars 1945 (à 15 ans)
Bergen-Belsen, Reich allemand
Nationalité Allemande
Pays de résidence Pays-Bas

[The Lawspeaker]

I think the main reason why so many flunk their French is because it is (at present) a useless subject. So I think that learning French should be made useful: dump French French and instead buy Belgian books and teach the children to speak Belgian French and since Belgium is just around the corner for us this is where the schools can plan their trips: day trips to Brussels and Namur (if they are close enough to the border) and school holidays in the Ardennes (it's just around the corner and relatively affordable). And student exchanges ? Mainly with Flemish and Walloon students. In that way it is no longer a useless subject but a tool for inter-Benelux cooperation.

[Albion]

I think the main reason why so many flunk their French is because it is (at present) a useless subject. So I think that learning French should be made useful: dump French French and instead buy Belgian books and teach the children to speak Belgian French and since Belgium is just around the corner for us this is where the schools can plan their trips: day trips to Brussels and Namur (if they are close enough to the border) and school holidays in the Ardennes (it's just around the corner and relatively affordable). And student exchanges ? Mainly with Flemish and Walloon students. In that way it is no longer a useless subject but a tool for inter-Benelux cooperation.

French is still useful, the Netherlands, Belgium and Southern England are all within easy distance of it.
Belgian French of the Walloon dialect would probably be a good idea if anyone in Belgium actually spoke it. I think they mainly speak standardised (Parisian) French though.

[The Lawspeaker]

French is still useful, the Netherlands, Belgium and Southern England are all within easy distance of it.
Belgian French of the Walloon dialect would probably be a good idea if anyone in Belgium actually spoke it. I think they mainly speak standardised (Parisian) French though.

For what I have read they speak a slightly different kind of French (it's not the same as the Walloon language though !) with different words that also have a Germanic heritage but I think that Tchek can tell you more about Belgian French.

Some differences.

• Breakfast seems to be petit déjeuner for the French but the Belgians, Canadians and Swiss call it déjeuner.

• S'il vous plait is used to mean "here" (when handing someone something) as well as "please", whereas in France the meaning is limited to "please" - and "voilà" is used for "here". This is comparable to the use of alstublieft in Dutch.

• Ça me goûte, standard French "ça me plait", "I like it" (only for food), is a calque of Dutch Dat smaakt.

• Qu'est-ce que c'est que ça pour un animal ?", standard French "Quelle sorte d'animal est-ce là ?", English "What kind of animal is this?" (literally "What is it that that for an animal?"), Dutch "Wat is dat voor een dier?"

• Usage of Une fois ("once") in mid-sentence, especially in Brussels, is a direct translation from the Dutch "eens". French people who want to imitate the Belgian accent often use a lot of "Une fois" at the end of the sentences, which is often wrong. Example: "Viens une fois ici" - literally : "Come once here". "Une fois" cannot really be translated in other languages; its function is to soften the meaning of the sentence. The English equivalent would be "Could you come here?" or "Why don't you come here?".

• The French major (maire) is a bourgmestre or burgemeester (the latter in Flanders) in Belgium and a burgemeester in the Netherlands.

And with the Netherlands being focussed on Germany (economically) and Flanders, Britain and the U.S (culturally) and Brussels (politically) France is somewhat.... irrelevant and as a consequence so is French. This should be improved by improving ties with Wallonia.

[Albion]

It's a shame Anglo-Norman didn't survive better. It looks like quite interesting. Oh well, I suppose it turned Old English into the modern language.
Unlike some English Nationalists, I don't see French impact on English as an unfortunate mistake. I quite like it to be honest, it gives it an interesting Romanic / Germanic blend.



English < Norman = French

cabbage < caboche = chou

candle < caundèle = chandelle

castle < caste(l) = château

cauldron < caudron = chaudron

causeway < cauchie = chaussée

catch < cachi = chasser

cater < acater = acheter

wicket < viquet = guichet

plank < planque = planche

pocket < pouquette = poche

fork < fouorque = fourche

garden < gardin = jardin

cattle < *cate(l) = cheptel