Cento: the father of Macedonian identity

[Romanion]

Macedonism began long before the 1940s. Chento was a military leader that later became the first President of P.R Macedonia. He was a Macedonist, but he was not the first, as Macedonia's national awakeners came long before Chento. Neverless, he is a hero of Macedonia and Macedonians.

Some more on Chento;

http://www.sobranie.mk/en/default.as...6A9EE6E1C9676E

No, read my link. He was the first to set up schools in what would be the socialist republic of Macedonia and teach children about a seperate Macedoniasim away from Bulgaria. This new ethno-political reality is what started a Macedonian people.

I understand why you would not like this, because it occured after the balkan wars, which meant claims that Greece took land from the Macedonian people are false.

And...do you agree with it?

Why yes, I've known about this dispute for years now, but whenever I read about where it started, people saying Tito, peopel saying IMRO, when I looked deeper into it it didn't really explain it. This man does, education is the key to nation building and a seperate identity, and Cento started it.

[brunette]

Lol I doubt it was Tito...

[Hurrem sultana]

Uhhm, more like 17%

even now they are officially around 25%

8% less,how? you plan a genocide?

[iNird]

even now they are officially around 25%

8% less,how? you plan a genocide?

It's all political crap. The Albanian figure might decrease but its more due to higher amount of emigration but not to the point of 17%. Even during the 2011 election, Albanian parties received around 21% of the votes. Couple with the fact Albanians have higher birth rates than Macedonians, there is almost no chance it falls that dramatically.

Like Illyrian mentioned, many Macedonians are claiming Bulgarian citizenship but who knows how these people will be counted, probably Macedonian. Many Bulgarians and Serbs claim their figures are underestimated as well.

[Crn Volk]

It's all political crap. The Albanian figure might decrease but its more due to higher amount of emigration but not to the point of 17%. Even during the 2011 election, Albanian parties received around 21% of the votes. Couple with the fact Albanians have higher birth rates than Macedonians, there is almost no chance it falls that dramatically.

Like Illyrian mentioned, many Macedonians are claiming Bulgarian citizenship but who knows how these people will be counted, probably Macedonian. Many Bulgarians and Serbs claim their figures are underestimated as well.

Bulgarian citizenship is obtained for economic reasons. These people still declare themselves as Macedonians. I know some of them.

[iNird]

Bulgarian citizenship is obtained for economic reasons. These people still declare themselves as Macedonians. I know some of them.

There definitely is an economic motive. But as I'm aware these people sign a paper stating they are not Macedonians but Bulgarians. To be counted as Macedonian in the census is a bit absurd.

[Crn Volk]

There definitely is an economic motive. But as I'm aware these people sign a paper stating they are not Macedonians but Bulgarians. To be counted as Macedonian in the census is a bit absurd.

To obtain a Bulgarian citizenship, you have to declare you are Bulgarian by origin. In order to work in the EU, many Macedonians are willing to do this. However, this does not change their ethnicity, and they still declare themselves as Macedonians.

[Petros Houhoulis]

It's all political crap. The Albanian figure might decrease but its more due to higher amount of emigration but not to the point of 17%. Even during the 2011 election, Albanian parties received around 21% of the votes. Couple with the fact Albanians have higher birth rates than Macedonians, there is almost no chance it falls that dramatically.

Like Illyrian mentioned, many Macedonians are claiming Bulgarian citizenship but who knows how these people will be counted, probably Macedonian. Many Bulgarians and Serbs claim their figures are underestimated as well.

Nope, the emigration ain't going up. It's going down because all of the advanced European countries are expelling foreigners because of the crisis - most often those people return to their homeland due to insufficient income at their host countries. We have statistics showing that the 15% of the Albanians immigrants in Greece have already returned home, for example - while Asians and Africans are replacing them.

Meanwhile the Albanian youth is disillusioned by the Albanian political parties - for obvious reasons - and do not turn out to vote. The emergence of the "New Democracy Party" of Imer Selmani and his unusual appeal to both sides for peaceful coexistence secured him the third place at the 2009 Presidential elections, until he lapsed to a typical Albanian platform of demanding more rights for the Albanians, while the gradual degeneration of intra-communal relations resulted at the Albanians having no moderate candidates. As a result a significant number of moderate Albanian voters did not turn out (resulting to the Albanian parties gaining a mere 21% of the vote - but then the Albanian candidates of the 2009 presidential elections had gotten 29,53% of the vote, why doesn't this "represent" the number of the Albanians in the country?

Because Imer Selmani appealed to both sides during those elections, and won votes from many different ethnic blocks. In the latest 2011 elections no Albanian tried anything alike (the nature of those elections did not help either - people were all hoping to get elected, not trying to elect a single person) and they suddently lost ~8% of their "voting power" - unreasonably correlated with fluctiation of populations by some - within 3 years...

One thing is for sure: The Albanians have a demographic advantage, and they shall win in the long term. It doesn't really matter though, the others have already plans to abandon Mordor and they have altered Mordor as much as they can in order to look something that it is not. Clearly they want to live somewhere else, and if they cannot just invade Macedonia and move there, they can create a dream of being there in their hallucinations. The Albanians can proceed at taking over the country as long as they do not disturb those hallucinations... So all they have to do is to stick to the real world and advance at a steady pace...

[Crn Volk]

Nope, the emigration ain't going up. It's going down because all of the advanced European countries are expelling foreigners because of the crisis - most often those people return to their homeland due to insufficient income at their host countries. We have statistics showing that the 15% of the Albanians immigrants in Greece have already returned home, for example - while Asians and Africans are replacing them.

Meanwhile the Albanian youth is disillusioned by the Albanian political parties - for obvious reasons - and do not turn out to vote. The emergence of the "New Democracy Party" of Imer Selmani and his unusual appeal to both sides for peaceful coexistence secured him the third place at the 2009 Presidential elections, until he lapsed to a typical Albanian platform of demanding more rights for the Albanians, while the gradual degeneration of intra-communal relations resulted at the Albanians having no moderate candidates. As a result a significant number of moderate Albanian voters did not turn out (resulting to the Albanian parties gaining a mere 21% of the vote - but then the Albanian candidates of the 2009 presidential elections had gotten 29,53% of the vote, why doesn't this "represent" the number of the Albanians in the country?

Because Imer Selmani appealed to both sides during those elections, and won votes from many different ethnic blocks. In the latest 2011 elections no Albanian tried anything alike (the nature of those elections did not help either - people were all hoping to get elected, not trying to elect a single person) and they suddently lost ~8% of their "voting power" - unreasonably correlated with fluctiation of populations by some - within 3 years...

One thing is for sure: The Albanians have a demographic advantage, and they shall win in the long term. It doesn't really matter though, the others have already plans to abandon Mordor and they have altered Mordor as much as they can in order to look something that it is not. Clearly they want to live somewhere else, and if they cannot just invade Macedonia and move there, they can create a dream of being there in their hallucinations. The Albanians can proceed at taking over the country as long as they do not disturb those hallucinations... So all they have to do is to stick to the real world and advance at a steady pace...

Petros, I urge you to visit places like Switzerland and Belgium and see the number of Macedonian Albanians there. Likewise you can board a plane from Skopje travelling to these countries and tell me who the majority of passengers are on this plane....I'm sure the Albanians will back me up on this.
The latest census was abandoned because the Albanians wanted these emigrants counted as residents in Macedonia, when in fact they live in other countries and visit during summer. This issue has still not been resolved and therefore the census is on hold. In previous census's such Albanians were counted, and hence their larger numbers. Without these Albanians, their number would be less than 20% in Macedonia, therefore rendering the Ohrid Agreement useless for them. Now do you get the situation?

[Petros Houhoulis]

Petros, I urge you to visit places like Switzerland and Belgium and see the number of Macedonian Albanians there. Likewise you can board a plane from Skopje travelling to these countries and tell me who the majority of passengers are on this plane....I'm sure the Albanians will back me up on this.
The latest census was abandoned because the Albanians wanted these emigrants counted as residents in Macedonia, when in fact they live in other countries and visit during summer. This issue has still not been resolved and therefore the census is on hold. In previous census's such Albanians were counted, and hence their larger numbers. Without these Albanians, their number would be less than 20% in Macedonia, therefore rendering the Ohrid Agreement useless for them. Now do you get the situation?

I never said that the Albanians were not immigrating there. The problem is that the borders are getting tighter every day, and the crisis pushes them back.

At the same time your people also immigrate, don't they?

The previous census was a joke just as the next one shall be. The people still define themselves by religion rather than ethnicity and your Muslims shall be very pissed off from what is happening to people like Velija Ramkovski and Fijat Canoski, not to mention the heavy handed support of the state towards the Orthodox church. Guess what sort of ethnicity they shall declare...

You clearly don't get it, do you?