Armenian genocide.

[Onur]

The Turkish Lobby is much more influential and powerful. Armenian Lobby is more grassroots.

Are you kidding me?

Armenian lobby is the 2nd strongest lobby in the world after the jewish one. There are even more Armenians abroad than the Armenian state. Armenians controls most of the French press and they have many people in key positions in judiciary and politics. They are also quite powerful in USA, having so many representatives in the US senate.

They are everywhere in Europe and Americas, even including south America.

[Scholarios]

Just let these guys sit in their Turko-centric world, where Ancient Turks founded civilization and benevolent angelic Turks helped Balkanians and humanely deported Armenians into the Syrian desert in 1915.

You can never convince them and the reasonable Turks cannot listen to another opinion in Turkey or he's going to end up like Hrent Dink- shot 3 times in the back of the head while he is in the process of his 3rd charge for "insulting turkishness". Can you see this is not the environment for Turks to be telling the rest of the world what did or did not happen to Armenians??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi..._of_Hrant_Dink

and people like Onur and Hoca have the nerve to come and post about Golden Dawn, who are like little lambs compared to Grey Wolves.

[iNird]

Just let these guys sit in their Turko-centric world, where Ancient Turks founded civilization and benevolent angelic Turks helped Balkanians and humanely deported Armenians into the Syrian desert in 1915.

You can never convince them and the reasonable Turks cannot listen to another opinion in Turkey or he's going to end up like Hrent Dink- shot 3 times in the back of the head while he is in the process of his 3rd charge for "insulting turkishness". Can you see this is not the environment for Turks to be telling the rest of the world what did or did not happen to Armenians??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi..._of_Hrant_Dink

and people like Onur and Hoca have the nerve to come and post about Golden Dawn, who are like little lambs compared to Grey Wolves.

There is something wrong with the Turkish psyche and it's prevalent amongst most of the board members on the apricity. Anyone that dares question Turkey and its' accomplishment is attacked by the Turkish hordes. There's a few of them here that are reasonable but the vast majority are just brainwashed and drink their urine as if it's the fountain of glory. No wonder they come out with laws against denigrating Turkish nation or insulting Ataturk because these Turks don't know how to handle criticism. Don't insult Turkey, don't insult our allah Ataturk, no such thing as Armenian genoicide, there is no Kurdish minority rights and so forth.

[Gospodine]

Armenian lobby is the 2nd strongest lobby in the world after the jewish one.

No it's not. BigPharma/HMO's/NRA/MPAA/RIAA/Saudis/Gulf Arabs/CIA Front Organizations all come well before the Armenians.

America still hasn't officially recognized the Armenian deportations/massacres as a genocide (despite certain US states passing proclamations of recognition; and those motions passed VERY narrowly). So regardless of what their political clout maybe, it's obvious they haven't met their aims, for one reason or another.

The US needs Incirlik, supply routes through Turkey and Turkish support for intervention in Syria (and in the past Iraq) so it's clear that you guys do have leverage over them, just like the Armenians do, and you use that to YOUR advantage.

Besides that, millions are spent annually on Turkey's behalf in the US via various lobbyists and lobbying groups:

Former Representative Robert Livingston (Bob Livingston) has been the main lobbyist for Turkey in blocking congressional efforts to pass an Armenian genocide resolution.

Records filed at the Justice Department show Turkish expenditures since August 2006 of about $3.2 million for lobbyists and public relations firms.

Gephardt, a senior counsel at the law firm of DLA Piper who retired from Congress in 2005, began working for Turkey in March under a yearlong contract worth $1.2 million.

Records show that Armenia has spent far less money on lobbying. Its largest expenditure went to the public relations firm of Burson-Marsteller, which earned about $300,000 from August 2006 to April 2007.

"The Turks have done everything they possibly could," said former Representative Stephen Solarz, whose firm got $165,000 this summer lobbying for Turkey under an arrangement with Livingston. Representative Adam Schiff, Democrat of California, a resolution sponsor, called Turkey's lobbying "the most intense I've ever seen."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/wo...2191.html?_r=0

The resolution has prompted an aggressive push by the government of Turkey and its lobbying firm led by former House majority leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), who had urged recognition of the Armenian genocide when he was in Congress. Public-relations firm Fleishman-Hillard also has a contract with Turkey worth more than $100,000 a month, records show.

The Turkish government has spent millions on Washington lobbying over the past decade, much of it focused on the Armenian genocide issue. The country's current lobbyist, the Gephardt Group, collects about $70,000 a month for lobbying services from the government in Ankara, according to federal disclosure records.

Another group, the Turkish Coalition of America, has targeted the districts of committee members who are considered potential swing votes, including submitting op-eds to local newspapers from the group's president.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030303786.html

Turkey, which shares some interests with the Middle East countries, spent nearly $1.7 million in 2009 to lobby American officials on Turkish and Middle Eastern policy through the firms of Richard A. Gephardt, a former House leader, Mr. Livingston and other prominent lobbyists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/wo...20lobby&st=cse

According to this source Turkey spent $3.5 million on lobbying in 2007 and 2008 alone, and not only that, but they have the most congressional contacts (even more than the Emiratis and Canadians):
http://www.propublica.org/article/ad...t-lobbying-718

The Turkish government has consistently lavished millions each year on well-connected Washington lobbying firms--including those employing former House leaders--which contacted offices of the lower chamber 1,468 times, according to an analysis of data from Foreign Lobbying Influence Tracker of disclosures filed in 2008 by firms under the Foreign Agent Registration Actnearly twice that of the second-highest country, Libya.

Those programs include the Institute for Turkish Studies at Georgetown University, which received an initial $3 million disbursement from Turkey in 1982 and continues to draw annual financial support from the government, and is chaired by Nabi Sensoy, Turkey's ambassador to the United States. In 2006, a board member, Donald Quataert, resigned from the institute, claiming that after he acknowledged in an academic review that the Armenian killings met the definition of genocide, Sensoy told him Turkish authorities had threatened to revoke the Institute's funding. Sensoy disputed the allegations.

The Turkish American Legal Defense Fund, financed by TCA, aggressively pursues those who threaten the country's reputation, including suing the Southern Poverty Law Center and David Holthouse, a journalist who prepared a report for the nonprofit, for upwards of $8 million on behalf of an academic. In that case, the Foreign Agents Registration Act is at issue. Holthouse suggested that, as part of a group of professors who have enjoyed endowed positions at universities financed directly by the government of Turkey and who have expressed views on the killings outside of the academic mainstream, he was acting as a foreign agent. If true, the academic would be required to file detailed disclosures with the U.S. Justice Department.

Few members have been as vocal as opposing the resolution as Rep. Dan Burton, R-Ind., who sits on the House Foreign Affairs committee and is a top recipient of Turkish Coalition USA PAC money.

More quietly, U.S. companies with interests in Turkey have lobbied on the resolution. For U.S. defense contractors, the Turkish armed forces are a multi-billion dollar market--Lockheed Martin and Raytheon would benefit from to latest proposed missile sale. Chevron is constructing a pipeline that passes through Turkey. CitiGroup, which has funded development projects in Turkey since 1975, acquired a twenty percent stake in the country's largest private bank in 2006, and acquired an investment brokerage in 2007.

By itself, Turkey boasts a formidable army of Washington lobbyists. The government has employed the Livingston Group, which boasts Bob Livingston, who'd served as chair of the House Appropriations Committee in the 1990s; Dickstein Shapiro LLP, which has former House Speaker Dennis Hastert on its payroll; DLA Piper, which employed former House majority leader Dick Armey, and the Gephardt Group, led by former House minority leader and Democratic presidential candidate Richard Gephardt. With the addition of corporate interests and its network of domestic supporters, it has built a formidable influence operation--one that can prevent legislation from coming to a vote.

http://reporting.sunlightfoundation....n-pursuit-of-/

[Teyrn]

There is something wrong with the Turkish psyche and it's prevalent amongst most of the board members on the apricity. Anyone that dares question Turkey and its' accomplishment is attacked by the Turkish hordes. There's a few of them here that are reasonable but the vast majority are just brainwashed and drink their urine as if it's the fountain of glory. No wonder they come out with laws against denigrating Turkish nation or insulting Ataturk because these Turks don't know how to handle criticism. Don't insult Turkey, don't insult our allah Ataturk, no such thing as Armenian genoicide, there is no Kurdish minority rights and so forth.

I don't think it's anything other than nationalistic spirit that causes Turkish outbursts. Our Spanish friends on the forum are similarly passionate in defending their patrimony. However, I understand the irritation that exists between Greece and Turkey and, etc.

However in this barbarous era of human history it's common to insult and denigrate people- especially the "other." The superior person, even if he or she is horrified by the other person, will never stoop to insults.

[legolasbozo]

Just let these guys sit in their Turko-centric world, where Ancient Turks founded civilization and benevolent angelic Turks helped Balkanians and humanely deported Armenians into the Syrian desert in 1915.

You can never convince them and the reasonable Turks cannot listen to another opinion in Turkey or he's going to end up like Hrent Dink- shot 3 times in the back of the head while he is in the process of his 3rd charge for "insulting turkishness". Can you see this is not the environment for Turks to be telling the rest of the world what did or did not happen to Armenians??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassi..._of_Hrant_Dink

and people like Onur and Hoca have the nerve to come and post about Golden Dawn, who are like little lambs compared to Grey Wolves.

İn the past something happened, i'm not well educated about that so i don't want to say my opinions. But armenians deported that's true. 6-7 september issues etc. i m'not looking in one perspective. But western peoples always meddle in issues to divide ottomans,arabian lawrence is a proof for that. So i quite believe they scratch greeks and armenians to started a mass, and after Ottomans, deep states manipulated Turks. There were several pains, sorrow and missery. But Hrant Dink case is different, it was Turkish Gladio, that's for sure.

[Loki]

America still hasn't officially recognized the Armenian deportations/massacres as a genocide (despite certain US states passing proclamations of recognition; and those motions passed VERY narrowly). So regardless of what their political clout maybe, it's obvious they haven't met their aims, for one reason or another.

I'll tell you for what reason: because not all war/civil war casualties can be considered genocides, and most people with more of an indepth knowledge of history know that. If Turks wanted to wipe out the entire Armenian ethnos they would have killed them all instead of deporting them.

Other nationalities have suffered FAR more than Armenians - even after WW1 - yet they do not claim genocide status. I include Poles, Russians, Belorussians and Germans.

[Scholarios]

I'll tell you for what reason: because not all war/civil war casualties can be considered genocides, and most people with more of an indepth knowledge of history know that. If Turks wanted to wipe out the entire Armenian ethnos they would have killed them all instead of deporting them.

Other nationalities have suffered FAR more than Armenians - even after WW1 - yet they do not claim genocide status. I include Poles, Russians, Belorussians and Germans.

Please, Loki, with all due respect. Pushing a landless people out of their homes into the desert is Murder. There are plenty of well-respected, non-Armenian academics who say this was an act of genocide. Just because you had some personal problems with Armenians, it doesn't make any difference. I don't agree with everything Israelis do, but I know the holocaust was a terrible case of mass-murder. Who cares about the numbers? Armenians were wiped from Anatolia with no place to go to. This is a genocide whether they want to admit it or not. It is different than the case of the Greeks in Anatolia and it is different than the Turks in the Balkans.

Surely a few Armenians aided and abetted our enemy, and a few Armenian Deputies committed crimes against the Turkish nation... it is incumbent upon a government to pursue the guilty ones. Unfortunately, our wartime leaders, imbued with a spirit of brigandage, carried out the law of deportation in a manner that could surpass the proclivities of the most bloodthirsty bandits. [B]They decided to exterminate the Armenians, and they did exterminate them.[/B]

Mustafa Arif, Ottoman Minister of Interior after Mehmed Talat Pasha (13 December 1918)

[Hoca]

Please, Loki, with all due respect. Pushing a landless people out of their homes into the desert is Murder.

This also happened with Turks in Greece during Balkan wars. Balkan Turks lost their home, property and life, some got killed, some fled. Are you willing to accept this also as Murder. ?

Read this:

It is estimated that at the turn of the 20th century there were 4,4 million Muslims living in the Balkan zone of Ottoman control.[29] More than one million Muslims left the Balkans in the last three decades of the 19th century.[30] Between 1912 and 1926 nearly 2.9 million Muslims were either killed or forced to emigrate to Turkey. (This is why Greece is empty)

This happened before 1915, I know you are all up in arms and protecting of justice, but you live in a glass house. So please don't throw stones. Loki is doing the right thing with protecting Turks. They had to endure a lot of suffering and media has been ignoring them because of double standard. This forum is helping Turks and some of you, you will know who you are, are getting stomach cramps because of this.

[Scholarios]

This also happened with Turks in Greece during Balkan wars. Balkan Turks lost their home, property and life, some got killed, some fled. Are you willing to accept this also as Murder. ?

Read this:

It is estimated that at the turn of the 20th century there were 4,4 million Muslims living in the Balkan zone of Ottoman control.[29] More than one million Muslims left the Balkans in the last three decades of the 19th century.[30] Between 1912 and 1926 nearly 2.9 million Muslims were either killed or forced to emigrate to Turkey. (This is why Greece is empty)

This happened before 1915, I know you are all up in arms and protecting of justice, but you live in a glass house. So please don't throw stones. Loki is doing the right thing with protecting Turks. They had to endure a lot of suffering and media has been ignoring them because of double standard. This forum is helping Turks and some of you, you will know who you are, are getting stomach cramps because of this.

You do understand that Turkey and Greece exchanged populations? And as the little propagandist that you are, you conveniently left out that I mentioned your Balkan Turks AND Asia Minor Greeks in the same sentence as not genocide with the goal that Turks go back to Turkey and Greeks go back to Greece? Where the %#$! were Armenians going to go?


I know you are young and only interested in make a bullshit sentence, but even you must know and understand this, right?

Between 1912 and 1926 nearly 2.9 million Muslims were either killed or forced to emigrate to Turkey. (This is why Greece is empty)

and 500,000 thousand of those Turks came from Greece with 2,000,000 million Greeks from Turkey. So what is your point? It's shitty life and history, but it's not the same and you know why...