Armenian genocide.

[gregorius]

Het is grappig dat de Engelstalige wikipedia over Armeniërs in het Ottomaanse Rijk toch heel andere dingen schrijft. Dat artikeltje van je is vast door een PVV-er geschreven.

English wikipedia says the following, Written by Geert himself?

Certain elite Armenian families in the Ottoman Empire gained the trust of the Sultans and were able to achieve important positions in the Ottoman government and the Ottoman Economy. Even though their numbers were small compared to the whole Ottoman Armenian population, this caused some resentment among Ottoman nationalists.The life of the rest of the common Armenians was a very difficult existence because they were treated as second class citizens.

[Hevo]

The Lawspeaker, i have yet to meet a Turk who will side with The Netherlands against Turkey. I don't believe that they will shoot at their own people.

[wvwvw]

But you would serve against the Netherlands "if need be" ?

Why shouldn't he serve against Netherlands? If Netherlands was the agressor and attacked Armenia I am sure every Armenian would serve against Netherlands. But if Armenia was the agressor most likely he would side with the Netherlands. it's about who is right or wrong, not about being blindly loyal at all costs.

[wvwvw]

Stabbing their country in the back during the middle of a war ? How would you like it if let's say gangs from Crete (yes whatever) started attacking Greek soldiers while Greece was fighting for it's very existence ?

Armenians, Greeks etc never wanted to be part of the retarded Ottoman empire. They wanted self-determination. So the Ottoman Empire was never "their country". They had no reason to be loyal. This is like asking a rape victim to be loyal to her rapist. Cretans would have never attacked other Greeks at a time of Crisis, because they considered other Greeks to be their kin. But for Greeks or Armenians the Turk was never their "kin" so they were looking for a good timing to attack him.

[The Lawspeaker]

English wikipedia says the following, Written by Geert himself?

Certain elite Armenian families in the Ottoman Empire gained the trust of the Sultans and were able to achieve important positions in the Ottoman government and the Ottoman Economy. Even though their numbers were small compared to the whole Ottoman Armenian population, this caused some resentment among Ottoman nationalists.The life of the rest of the common Armenians was a very difficult existence because they were treated as second class citizens.

But also mentions the high positions enjoyed within the Empire by many of these socalled dhimmi's.

[Onur]

Rubbish. As it has been repeated time and time again here Armenians held positions of importance within the Empire. That's more than what we did for the Indonesians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia...Ottoman_Empire Second class, eh ?

Thanks for this link.

The foreign minister of the Ottoman empire was an ethnic Armenian back in 1915 and i am gonna quote the incomplete list of Armenian officers who occupied important positions in the state during WW-1;

• There were twenty-two Armenian ministers in Ottoman Administration, including the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Finance, Treasury, Trade and Post, with other Armenians holding high positions at the departments in charge of agriculture, economic development, and the census.

• There also were thirty-three Armenian representatives appointed and elected to the Ottoman Parliament, seven ambassadors, eleven consuls-general and consuls, eleven university professors, and forty-one other officials of high rank.

• In the beginning of the twentieth century, during the Balkan Wars, Mr. Gabriel Noradukyan, an Ottoman Armenian, served as the Foreign Minister of the Ottoman Empire.

• Agop Kazakyan served as the Minister of Finance and Sakız Ohannes Paşa as the Minister of Treasury.

• İlyas Çayan Efendi was the President of the Council of State.

• Osgan Mardikyan was the Minister of Communication.

• Ohannes Ferit Efendi (Van), Ohannes Asasyan (Elazığ), L. Aycıyan ve Ant Billoryan (Erzurum) served as the Deputy Governors in the eastern provinces of Turkey.

• The Armenian circles put forth exaggerated statistics with regard to the Armenian population in the Ottoman Empire.

• The Ottoman statistics are the most reliable and sound source which put the Armenian population in the Empire at the start of World War I, at around 1,3 million.

• The sound population statistics were necessary for the Ottoman Administration for tax collection and military conscription.

• It is worth to note that the Ottoman Census Administration, which was established in 1892, operated under an Ottoman Armenian named Migirdich Shinopian between the years 1903-1908, and, as of 1908, under an American.

• In the light of these facts, the Armenian allegation that 1,5 million Armenians were massacred constitutes an utter distortion of the historical truth.

THE LIST OF THE ARMENIAN BUREUCRATS AND CIVIL SERVANTS IN THE LATE OTTOMAN ERA

THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Gabriel Noradukyan (Minister of Foreign Affairs in 1912) Ohannes Kuyumcuyan (Deputy Undersecretary in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs between 1909 and 1913)

DEPUTY COUNSELLORS ON LEGAL AFFAIRS IN THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Edvar Bey Mısırlı (until 1908) Hırant Bey Abro (until 1917)

CONSULS AND DIPLOMATS CONSULS AND DIPLOMATS

Hrant Düz (Messina/Italy)

Hovsep Misakyan Efendi (The Hague/Netherlands)

Ohannes Magakyan Efendi (Deputy Consul/Oziçe-Serbia)

Mihran Kavafyan Efendi (Consul General/France)(in 1907 Counsellor – Plenipotentiary/ Belgium)

Şekip Efendi (First Secretary Berlin/Germany)

Harutyun Markaryan Efendi(First Secretary/Belgrade)

Hovsep Azaryan Efendi (Consul General/Malta)

Sarkis Balyan Efendi (Consul Bari/Italy)

Dikran Hünkarbeğendiyan (Deputy Consul Odessa/Russia)

Levon Bey Yeremyan (Second Secretary/Paris)

Diran Bey Dadyan (Second Secretary/Brussels)

Levon Bey Yeremyan (Second Secretary/Paris)

Minas Yeram Efendi (Deputy Consul /Zanta)

Ohannes Nafilyan Efendi (Deputy Consul /Tbilisi)

Hrant Bey Noradukyan (Deputy Consul /Galaç-Romania)

Arsen Efendi (Deputy Consul/Newcastle/Britain Patras/Greece)

MINISTRY OF TREASURY

Sakız Ohannes Paşa (Minister, between the years 1897 and 1908)

MINISTRY OF FINANCE

Agop Kazakyan (Minister)

MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL OF STATE (post 1900)

İlyas Çayan Efendi (President)

Andon Köseyan (Director of Public Accounts)

Duran Bey

Zarah Dilber Efendi

Bedros Zeki Garabetyan

Krikor Hıdıryan Efendi

Hrant Asadur Efendi

MINISTRY OF COMMUNICATION

Osgan Mardikyan (Minister, 1913)

ELECTIONS

Krikor Zohrap

Bedros Hallacyan

Agop Babikyan

Nazaret Dağavaryan MINISTRY OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS (AFTER 1900)

Ohannes Ferit Efendi (Deputy Governor in Van)

Ohannes Asasyan (Deputy Governor in Elazığ)

L. Aycıyan ve Ant Billoryan (Deputy Governor in Erzurum)

Harutyun Hamdanyan (Chief of External Correspondence)

MEMBERS OF THE OTTOMAN PARLIAMENT ELECTED AT THE 1908 GENERAL

CIVIL SERVANTS

Sisak Ferit Bey (Director General of the Ottoman Census Administration)

Minas Gamsar (Censor responsible for Armenian newspapers)

Levon Surenyan (Censor responsible for Armenian newspapers)

Bogos Parnasyan (Director General of Press and Information)

Only this sentence is enough to see that the Armenians was occupying all the important positions by their tentacles during WW-1 and yet they accuse us by supposedly committing genocide to them at the same time;

There were twenty-two Armenian ministers in Ottoman Administration, including the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Finance, Treasury, Trade and Post, with other Armenians holding high positions at the departments in charge of agriculture, economic development, and the census.

Stabbing their country in the back during the middle of a war ? How would you like it if let's say gangs from Crete (yes whatever) started attacking Greek soldiers while Greece was fighting for it's very existence ?

No need to say that because this scenario has been realized in Greece during WW-2. Greeks claimed that the Cham Albanians collaborated with Nazis and they did exact same thing to them and even more. They deported all the 35.000 Cham Albanians out from Greece.

I said even more, because we didn't deport all the Armenians and we didn't expel them out but we relocated them to the other parts of the empire.

[The Lawspeaker]

Armenians, Greeks etc never wanted to be part of the retarded Ottoman empire. They wanted self-determination. So the Ottoman Empire was never "their country". They had no reason to be loyal. This is like asking a rape victim to be loyal to her rapist. Cretans would have never attacked other Greeks at a time of Crisis, because they considered other Greeks to be their kin. But for Greeks or Armenians the Turk was never their "kin" so they were looking for a good timing to attack him.

Well if you attack what is legally your country during a time of war one expect brutal reprisals. It's indeed the worst form of treason.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well I know what would happen: Sherman's March to the Sea. Ten times over. And that's how one "rewards" treason. IN ANY COUNTRY.

[gregorius]

But also mentions the high positions enjoyed within the Empire by many of these socalled dhimmi's.

Read what is says,
the rest of the common Armenians was a very difficult existence because they were treated as second class citizens.

It says certain elite families, The rest was seen as second class. What do you want to prove? that the armenians lived a happy live there?

[The Lawspeaker]

Read what is says,
the rest of the common Armenians was a very difficult existence because they were treated as second class citizens.

It says certain elite families, The rest was seen as second class. What do you want to prove? that the armenians lived a happy live there?

That they enjoyed high positions just as well and that they were no real second class citizens in the way the British treated India or we treated Indonesia.