Reconciling differences between Bulgarians and Macedonians and paving coexistence of two peoples

[poiuytrewq0987]

I believe the root of the problem between Bulgarians and Macedonians ultimately lies with Bulgarians wanting to completely assimilate Macedonians into a Bulgarian national identity and our insistence to detach ourselves from everything Bulgarian.

I want to bring up an idea that could possibly enable the coexistence of Bulgarians and Macedonians without replacing one other's identity entirely. For reapproachment to happen I believe Bulgarians need to recognize Macedonians as a separate ethnic group who later got Bulgarized during the medieval period. Whether the Bulgarization was hostile or not I will not debate but I can consider it as friendly adoption since the cultures of Bulgaria and Macedonia are similar to a degree and this couldn't have happened if the relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia were hostile.

From recognizing us as a separate regional people with similar language and culture you will also need to accept our antiquity part of history. Meaning the old Macedonian history and our connection to history thereof. I think it's pretty obvious that with genetic tests we can tell we aren't descended from Russians but rather we are indigenous to the Balkans with sprinklings of Slavs who migrated here.

Bulgarians are also obviously not completely descended from Bulgar and Slavic migrants. Rather modern Bulgarians are descendants of Thracians who adopted a Bulgarian national identity. So, in essence, Bulgarian is the cultural and linguistic link of Macedonians and Thracians. We can't be strong without one other and this is the reason why I am discussing ways we could reconcile our differences and repair our Bulgarian bond.

The formation of a Macedonian national identity has its roots in the merging of Paeonians and Macedonians.They became a singular ethnic group as there were really no genetic nor significant cultural differences between both peoples. The Macedonians in Southern Macedonia fell under Hellenistic influence of Attica and Peloponnese whereas Macedonians in Northern Macedonia fell under Roman influence. This paved the way for the future splintering of Macedonians. Think of Justinian the First and how heavily Romanized he was despite having come from Northern Macedonia. The same with Macedonians who lived in Southern Macedonia and they were heavily Hellenistized (Hellenistic influence not Hellenic as the latter only came into existence in 19th century).

The North and South Macedonians were unified during the empires of Samuil and Simeon bringing the Macedonians under one banner. This banner today is called Bulgarian. The labeling of the common language and cultural sphere of Macedonia and Bulgaria is called Bulgarian. The problem with this kind of labeling is it completely makes our name, our history and our culture completely irrelevant. Whilst I don't ignore the common links between Bulgarians and Macedonians I don't believe the complete assimilation and the erasing of our identity under the banner of Bulgarianism could ever work. A lot of Bulgarians tried to impose East Bulgarian dialect on us in Solun schools but this failed and caused the rift between Bulgarians and Macedonians.

I believe the rift can be healed if Bulgarians recognize our distinct ethnic identity with no reservations. We could then again embrace the medieval history of Macedonians and Bulgarians unified under a single banner. It was then we did many great things and accomplished many feats yet matched by Macedonians and Bulgarians of today. The reunification of Macedonians and Bulgarians could be achieved by the formation of a federation that brings Macedonia and Bulgaria together. Only then will we be able to assert our national desires that are currently impossible.

Albanians will suddenly have no power in the federation as they would be relegated to only 5% of the total population. While other ethnic groups will remain pretty much the same percentage-wise.

[morski]

Nice thread!

I'm off to see the Bulgarian National Radio Big-band's concert for Jazz World Day, 30th of April now.

Will give my detailed input upon return.

[brunette]

Thracians have Pontic Greek and Southern Slavic blood. Bulgarians are just mostly Pontic Southern Slavs.

[Lithium]

Thracians have Pontic Greek and Southern Slavic blood. Bulgarians are just mostly Pontic Southern Slavs.

Thracians were much a much older ethnic group than the South Slavs.

[brunette]

Oh yes but they ended up there and intermarried with the Northern Greek population at the time.

[Crn Volk]

Bulgarians would also need to recognise the Macedonian literary language as a separate, but related language to Bulgarian. As for a common state, this should be left for the people to decide through a vote.

[Archduke]

What will be the common state called? Anyway, this idea is very nice, but people in FYROM hate bulgarians and if Bulgaria recognize the macedonian nation and languange, there will be no difference. The turko-mongol, tatar inults will remain.

[Ivo Arandur]

I believe the root of the problem between Bulgarians and Macedonians ultimately lies with Bulgarians wanting to completely assimilate Macedonians into a Bulgarian national identity and our insistence to detach ourselves from everything Bulgarian.

Nicely put up

When I was younger (not that I'm old now) I sympathised with those nationalistic groups in Bulgaria (VMRO and the likes) who claim "Macedonia is Bulgaria" and all that stuff - nowadays, they just annoy me...I really hate it when people can't be objective and can't or don't want to make the effort to see things as they are without all the propaganda garbage...

Of course I don't agree with everything you wrote...parts of what you wrote sounded like: "me and some friends all of a sudden deciding we are Thracians and claiming that all through history there has always existed a separate Thracian people and we even had medieval Thracian kings etc." But that's just me and I don't claim to be a history expert...who knows, your take on history may turn to be closer to reality than mine - but I think that should be left to be determined (objectively) by the professional historians...

The simple truth is that for considarable periods through the Middle Ages the people that lived on the territory of today's Bulgaria and Macedonia were united politically and culturally...as for the ethnicity of those people - there were Slavs, Bulgars, Cumans, Thracians, Jews, Vlachs and probably tens of other ethnicities (so why not Macedonians as well) -> united in one political entity...that's how all nations are born - by culturally and politically unifying the people living in a particular territory...the Ottoman conquest in the Balkans, however, interrupted that process...in the 18th and 19th century - a nation began to form here but never really formed completely since the territory/people were never united in one country (at least for any serious period of time)...and since eventually, there were 2 separate countries that were established here - it's only normal that nowadays we have 2 separate nations...

In any case, the people of Bulgaria and Macedonia (historically speaking) are as close to each other as it gets and we should use this and build on it...there's a saying in Bulgarian "брат брата не храни, но горко му който го няма" - we may quarrel all we like b/w ourselves but we'll be idiots if we don't use our closiness to our mutual advantage...after all in today's modern world and modern politics build on pure interest - it's a really powerful "weapon" to have an ally that's with you for reasons much deeper than cold interest...

p.s. as for the language - today's Macedonian language is obviously a separate language...sure, very close to Bulgarian but separate nonetheless...

p.s.2 oh and a Federation sounds cool but I don't know if it's possible

[Ivo Arandur]

What will be the common state called?

Federation of Bulgaria and Macedonia? I wonder if we are gonna have name problems with Greece

[Onur]

Bulgarians would also need to recognise the Macedonian literary language as a separate, but related language to Bulgarian. As for a common state, this should be left for the people to decide through a vote.

I don't know neither of these languages but i highly doubt that the difference between Macedonian and Bulgarian languages should have been created after 1878 because it was the Russians who standardized and classified Bulgarian language and current modern Bulgarian language is their product. They changed their language and many Russian words flooded to Bulgarian language in that time while Macedonia remained inside the Ottoman empire `till 1913, preserved their own language. For example, Pomaks claims that they speak older Bulgarian and they are mostly free from the russification of Bulgarian language.

Maybe the difference between the language of Skopje and Sofia was only in dialectical level before Russians standardized Bulgarian language.