10 commandments ( Solon The Greek )

[arcticwolf]

As the discussions are way too intellectual lately ( who/what to boink and how, what to wear where, who/what/where/how/why we hate etc ) all very important issues but, I thought I lighten things up and do introduce a trivial thread to balance things out.

Here are the commandments of the Father of Democracy the Great Solon The Greek:

1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.

What do you think? How do they compare to other commandments, are they still good advice? Take a break from all the important stuff and relax in this thread. Let it rip.

[GeistFaust]

1.This is a noteworthy statement to make, because its important to evaluate people on what they do instead of what they say. If they can say something, and then do something else then they are being inconsistent and contradictory with themselves and others. Its not worth it trusting such people at all, but rather we should see them as liars and false to their true self or at least the self they proclaim to be.

2. Do not speak falsely. Its good not to do this, but I think a lot double-speak is fine in certain situations, because some people ought not to know what is going on. A little transparency is fine, but I prefer to have some closed door terminology, which shuts certain people out. I think its necessary to do this so that not everyone is infringing upon your own personal life.


I think in this case we need to define false in the sense of private thoughts/actions in relation to public thoughts/actions. A lie or a false statement can be hidden and cloaked in a seemingly true announcement and language expression. This is when understanding the symbolic nature of language allows us to break down and decode the truth and lie behind certain language/body expressions.


I think its not always easy to distinguish, so when we are reacting to a specific situation, we might have become naturally oriented to speak falsely in a sense. The other question is what distinguishes a falsehood from a truth, and sometimes this is purely "subjective" and open to interpretation.


3. This is too broad of an assertion, and needs to be a bit more detailed in its application. Its principle statements like this that get people in trouble, because they can believe they are following a specific imperative command, when they are actually violating it. That is because there is no true application for the imperative command, because it lacks conditions, limits, and a context given a specific situation and series of actions.

The motives behind actions need to be evaluated and intentionality, which is not something we can measure purely through the consequences of a specific series of actions. There are always going to be misinterpretations, misunderstandings, and misperceptions, which might have provoked a certain series of actions and behaviors in given individuals. Good can be applied in an absolutely valid manner regarding a few specific actions and behaviors.


That I believe there is an intrinsic distinction between good and evil in such actions such as murder, thievery, and rape. The distinction between these forms of action, and other actions which use similar methods and applications, tend to lie in the context of the situation of that specific act. That said trying to qualify and define a good act is about as impossible to ground into a comprehensive system of morality as it is to be able to grasp the sun, and use its energies for some other alternative purpose.


It all hinges on the interpretations of the individual as they are affected by the cultural, legal, and social understandings and conceptions of good. This tends to be relative, but they are some quasi-similarities, which are necessary to maintain the primordial order of civilization itself.

That said I tend to not like broad assertions which are not conditioned into a proper context, because it might be misleading and misinterpreted. The combination of a person's thoughts and actions determine "morality" to a certain extent, and if there are any violations of an objective code of "morality," there ought to be social consequences. Broad assertions though only add gaps to our ability to properly understand and conceptualize morality itself as applied in a social and cultural context.

4. This is a good statement, and I can agree with it, but I would like to add that one ought to make only as few friends as possible.

5. Learn to obey before you command. This does not always work, and it depends on the context of the situation. I think it depends on who is issuing and authorizing the commands as well, and their credibility and position ought to be questioned. That is if they have a dogmatic right to state a right or wrong we ought to validate the rational authority of such a claim, instead of blinding trusting and believing in such a statement.


That is we can not trust people who say they garner their authority from some unseen force or being, but rather on the basis that they have processed themselves through a certain systematic attainment of authority. That is to say it would be necessary for them to have attained their authority in a qualified systematic process where they attain the information and knowledge to apply their authority in the appropriate manner.


The misapplication and false assumptions of authority positions in history have led to some of the most tragic events and ideas. I think at the same time we ought to be obedient to those people who are deemed credible given their performance within the systematic process of attaining their authority for a specific task and function in society.


We could question what is credible here, but I don't think the large mass of people, who have not processes themselves through the systematic process of becoming qualified and credible ought to determine "credibility."


6. I think this is a good moral statement, and we ought to mitigate what is pleasurable about things at times. Although I think its wrong to negate pleasure all together, and some pleasure is necessary for humans in order to remain function.

There needs to be a balance between pleasure seeking and being useful, although I would state that being useful in an intellectual and in a concrete social function is more fundamentally important than pleasure. One must find pleasure in doing what is useful, because it strengthens character, resolve, and personality.

If one can not be useful and do useful things in a social context then they ought not to have pleasure whatsoever. That is because they don't deserve to refuel if they have nothing to refuel for. A person's advice should be an objective as possible, and this should negate pleasing others, but rather taking it oneself as an imperative duty to advise on the basis of rights.

7. Yes, I can not agree more with ths fundamental principle, and I think it should serve as the groundworks for all these commandments.

If one can not master himself through reason or let reason master him then he will never have the capacity to apply and act according to moral principles and rules in society and culture.

He is merely a slave of his passions and instincts, and will never be able to satisfy himself in life, because he does not follow this most basic principle. This principle is the basis upon which humans are able to uncover and discover happiness, order, and peace in their life.

Without this command then you have anarchy, sadness, tragedy, disorder and chaos in general. This principle is the most fundamental to maintaining the functionality of the other commands, and once you have abandoned it then you have abandoned the appropriate way of applying the other 9 commands.

8. Do not associate with people who do bad things. Yes, I agree, although the distinction of what is bad is going to be "subjective" in large part. Those people who are really all that bad will be maintained by the larger socio-cultural consciousness. Hopefully they will receive their proper and just punishment through the application of a structured and rational code of law in society.

That way they can no longer can be considered a threat to those under the protection of the law, and who abide by its principles. Truly bad people should be imprisoned, and forcefully negated from being capable of associating with other law-abiding citizens.

The rest of what qualifies as bad is going to be on the basis of subjective thoughts and preferences, and will only garner objectivity for a specific group of individuals, who happen to share similar opinions. That said these people are not bad per se nor should their opinions and subjective thought/actions be suppressed, unless they represent a threat to the specific code and functional law of the state in charge.

9. Honor the gods. This is a completely illegitimate assertion here, and its basically like saying obey the political and social authorities that are positioned you. Its another way of stating that by according with the political and social authorities you are according with what they represent, which supersedes them.

That which supersedes them is the code of law and a systematic code of morality as applied to society. It is the organon of law and ethics, which is being affirmed, and that obedience to the subjective interpretations and applications of this legal code and systematic legal function is necessary to accord itself with morality itself.

That said I would substitute the "gods" for something like the mythical and symbolic representations of political and social authorities as they correlate with "morality" as applied to society and culture in a broader context.

10. Have regard for your parents. This depends, but generally I agree with this, although I must say there are certain definite flaws with the codes of the parents. We ought to realize that parents themselves are prone to mistakes, and that having to regard, obey, and respect them in a few instances is not worth it.

That is especially when you own dignity and being are at risk of being violated and abused. This is why if I get into power I would establish a program called the Parental Control unit, which will use advanced technological means in order to see if parents are treating their child properly.

If they are not then they will lose legal authority over that child, and will be given over to the nearest relative, who will be subsequently watched. It is systems like this that need to be set up in order to maintain that order and morality is being carried and affirmed in the most technical of manners on the most private of levels.

[Quorra]

As the discussions are way too intellectual lately ( who/what to boink and how, what to wear where, who/what/where/how/why we hate etc ) all very important issues but, I thought I lighten things up and do introduce a trivial thread to balance things out.

Here are the commandments of the Father of Democracy the Great Solon The Greek:

1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.

What do you think? How do they compare to other commandments, are they still good advice? Take a break from all the important stuff and relax in this thread. Let it rip.

I'm great at 6 and 10. I'm a disaster with the others.

[Daco Celtic]

thou shalt not lust for Komi women

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

As the discussions are way too intellectual lately ( who/what to boink and how, what to wear where, who/what/where/how/why we hate etc ) all very important issues but, I thought I lighten things up and do introduce a trivial thread to balance things out.

Here are the commandments of the Father of Democracy the Great Solon The Greek:

1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.

What do you think? How do they compare to other commandments, are they still good advice? Take a break from all the important stuff and relax in this thread. Let it rip.