Macedonian liberals showed the door when Greece chose to play hardball with country

[poiuytrewq0987]

Relations between the Republic of Greece and the Republic of Macedonia are a case in point. After the violent break-up of the former Yugoslav Federation in 1991, Greece was faced with the prospect of living with an independent Slav-Macedonian state on its northern border. Greek politics could not, some eighteen years ago, accept the existence of a separate Macedonian national identity, even less the existence of such an identity as a Greek minority. Since Greeks believe that the Macedonian name is part of their historical heritage and should therefore not be used to identify another nation, the new identity was perceived as too challenging to the cohesiveness of the Greek national identity. So much so that the new state was considered a threat to Greek national security and was dealt with accordingly. On the domestic front, nationalist emotions were stirred; on the international front, a crippling economic embargo was imposed and diplomatic war was declared on the new state.

This had its effects, both internationally and domestically, on the new Balkan state. Because of opposition from Greece, Macedonia was taken off the potentially fast track towards Union membership and put back on the Balkan road. This despite the fact that it was the only former Yugoslav republic that achieved independence through a legal process of peaceful self-determination and whose independence, together with Slovenia, was received positively and recognized by the Arbitration Commission of the EU. On the domestic front, Greek nationalism dealt a severe blow to liberal thought in Macedonia and opened the doors to nationalist interpretations of its history and identity. Nationalists, as you know, usually perceive nations as ethnically pure human rockets that travel from the depths of history to the present day: they care little about the actual waves of history that move borders and peoples and even less for the fact that modern nations are a recent product of world society.
-Denko Maleski

http://www.eurozine.com/articles/200...aleski-en.html

[YOUTUBE]ujCUOveqhpw[/YOUTUBE]

[RoyBatty]

What's your point?

FYROM is a threat to Greek National Security. It's obvious to anybody except a retard that the Skopjens will eventually lay claim to parts of Northern Greece by using the "Macedonia" label and Alexander Cult Identity as their excuse. (Possibly even supported by USA, Turks and other Balkans special interests groups)

It's not rocket science.

The saying "This town ain't big enough for the both of us" springs to mind. You cannot have two "Macedonias", it doesn't work. It's an accident waiting to happen.

[poiuytrewq0987]

What's your point?

FYROM is a threat to Greek National Security. It's obvious to anybody except a retard that the Skopjens will eventually lay claim to parts of Northern Greece by using the "Macedonia" label and Alexander Cult Identity as their excuse. (Possibly even supported by USA, Turks and other Balkans special interests groups)

It's not rocket science.

The saying "This town ain't big enough for the both of us" springs to mind. You cannot have two "Macedonias", it doesn't work. It's an accident waiting to happen.

First of all, to think of Macedonia as a genuine military threat to Greece is laughable.

Second of all, if Macedonia liberals weren't shown the door then nationalists wouldn't have won power and exacerbated the problem today. The "Alexander cult" wouldn't exist today. It's precisely because of Greece's actions Macedonia has been pushed so far right and anti-pretty much everyone in region. If Greece had chosen to recognize the country like any 21st century nation should then Macedonia would quite possibly reunite with Bulgaria but Greece benefits more from Balkans being unstable, Macedonia remain isolated and not part of Bulgaria, etc... anyhow. Samaras even admitted he was working towards the destabilization of Macedonia by backing Albanian terrorists and keeping it isolated from international organizations.

At 1:44, Samaras says: “… I don’t know exactly when, but I believe that soon Skopia (sic) will no longer exist as a unified subject, that means that time is on our side, practically, it is on our side. Because I think they won’t be able to maintain unity… ”

Thus, Samaras reveals Greeces’s real plan: to de-stabilize Macedonia politically, in hopes that it will cease to exist. This involves denying entry into protection treaties like NATO, attacking the Macedonian name, identity and cultural symbols, and creating border incidents, like the three-and-half-year long illegal trade embargo of the 90s.

At 3:20, Samaras admits that even the prospect of a Greater Albania, with 6 million inhabitants, would not pose any genuine security threat to the Greek state: “…Is there a danger for Greece of a Greater Albania? I don’t raise an alarm for danger… if Albania grows from 4 million to 6 million, nothing will change. Greece, as a power… its development, its population… We are more numerous, more powerful and much more developed, and there is absolutely nothing to fear from them.”

In this quote, Samaras openly undermines the Greek government’s “irredentism” argument, by admitting that not even a Greater Albania can threaten Greece, much less the Republic of Macedonia, a third of the size of what a greater Albania would be.

The current Greek position is not to invade Macedonia itself. Instead, elements in the Greek government are interested in getting the Albanians to do the dirty work for them, in hopes that Macedonia will one day cease to exist.

The political leader of the largest Albanian party in Macedonia, DUI, is Ali Ahmeti, a former NLA terrorist who has openly stated he cannot defend the peace in Macedonia, despite the fact that his party controls the Ministry of Defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnCrRXJAJeU

[poiuytrewq0987]

One more thing, Macedonians claiming South Macedonia is not exactly news. Bulgarians have claimed the region for the longest time because we were the dominant ethnic group for a good while until those nice Pontic Greeks rediscovered their ancient Macedonian identity and moved to Macedonia. The treaty of San Stefano was exactly designed to include all ethnic Bulgarians in one country. You can see much of it included almost all of Macedonia except Solun and Haldiki.

[Queen B]

First of all, to think of Macedonia as a genuine military threat to Greece is laughable.

Second of all, if Macedonia liberals weren't shown the door then nationalists wouldn't have won power and exacerbated the problem today. The "Alexander cult" wouldn't exist today. It's precisely because of Greece's actions Macedonia has been pushed so far right and anti-pretty much everyone in region. If Greece had chosen to recognize the country like any 21st century nation

If Fyrom had decided to use any other name than this specific one and if Fyrom had decided to start the constitution with no terriotorial claims, we wouldn't have a problem in the first place and everything would go smooth.

should then Macedonia would quite possibly reunite with Bulgaria but Greece benefits more from Balkans being unstable,

Quite the opossite, actually.

[RoyBatty]

First of all, to think of Macedonia as a genuine military threat to Greece is laughable.

To think that Albanians in Kosovo were a threat to Serbia was equally laughable and we all know what happened next, don't we?

FYROM itself is nothing but that won't stop its rulers from dreaming big dreams and should they get a bit of help from their friends...... all bets are off and anything is possible.

Second of all, if Macedonia liberals weren't shown the door then nationalists wouldn't have won power and exacerbated the problem today. The "Alexander cult" wouldn't exist today. It's precisely because of Greece's actions Macedonia has been pushed so far right and anti-pretty much everyone in region. If Greece had chosen to recognize the country like any 21st century nation should then Macedonia would quite possibly reunite with Bulgaria but Greece benefits more from Balkans being unstable, Macedonia remain isolated and not part of Bulgaria, etc... anyhow. Samaras even admitted he was working towards the destabilization of Macedonia by backing Albanian terrorists and keeping it isolated from international organizations.

You're making silly excuses and now blaming Greece for what is clearly a domestic problem with local maniacs. Maybe you could blame Greece for the weather next, or losing the football.

The thought of FYROM tying up with Bulgaria is equally laughable. FYROM's hate Bulgarians until the day they need EU Passports. Then suddenly they remember about their Bulgarian grandparents.

Look on youtube, there are plenty of funny videos of FYROM tough guys training to "kill Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians and Greeks". Obviously this must all be Greece's fault as well.

[poiuytrewq0987]

To think that Albanians in Kosovo were a threat to Serbia was equally laughable and we all know what happened next, don't we?

What caused these people to win elections? Greece. Simple as that. Greece's actions turned Macedonians to far right for answer to their problems.

FYROM itself is nothing but that won't stop its rulers from dreaming big dreams and should they get a bit of help from their friends...... all bets are off and anything is possible.

Hey smart guy, Maleski clearly said if Macedonia was respected and treated with dignity by Greece then it surely would have prevented the once-fringe right-wingers from taking power and dealt with its problems accordingly and quite possibly unite with Bulgaria via a referendum. But you are treating this issue like one huge ZOG conspiracy, doesn't make you look like a serious poster at all.

[Queen B]

Look on youtube, there are plenty of funny videos of FYROM tough guys training to "kill Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians and Greeks". Obviously this must all be Greece's fault as well.

Everything is Greece's fault according to these friendly and good neighbors

[RoyBatty]

What caused these people to win elections? Greece. Simple as that. Greece's actions turned Macedonians to far right for answer to their problems.

Everything is Greece's fault.
When a FYROM has a headache, it is Greece's fault.
When the Skopjens spends the National Budget on building Aleksandr Statues as high as Mt Olympus, it is Greece's fault.

I know I know... it's Greece's fault!

Hey smart guy, Maleski clearly said if Macedonia was respected and treated with dignity by Greece then it surely would have prevented the once-fringe right-wingers from taking power and dealt with its problems accordingly and quite possibly unite with Bulgaria via a referendum.

Last time I checked Maleski wasn't yet the all-knowing and all-seeing deity. He has his views, he has his agendas. There's obvious schoolboy science and methods to his rhetoric.

His views and agendas are to absolve FYROM from any sin (because FYROM can per definition only ever be virtuous and blameless for everything and anything) and to present Greece as the Great Satan. The Evil One who ruined Utopia and Paradise.

But you are treating this issue like one huge ZOG conspiracy, doesn't make you look like a serious poster at all.

ZOG certainly did a number on Serbia with regards to Kosovo. Maybe one day it would suit them to do the same thing to Greece. You never know
They've done it before. They have an established track record.

Just ask the Armenians and Serbs.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Everything is Greece's fault.
When a FYROM has a headache, it is Greece's fault.
When the Skopjens spends the National Budget on building Aleksandr Statues as high as Mt Olympus, it is Greece's fault.

I know I know... it's Greece's fault!

You're an idiot, plain and simple. It IS a fact that Greece's actions PUSHED Macedonia to the far right. The right-wing was only a fringe element before. Stop ignoring this.

Last time I checked Maleski wasn't yet the all-knowing and all-seeing deity. He has his views, he has his agendas. There's obvious schoolboy science and methods to his rhetoric.

Coming from an unknown forum poster with zero credibility?

His views and agendas are to absolve FYROM from any sin (because FYROM can per definition only ever be virtuous and blameless for everything and anything) and to present Greece as the Great Satan. The Evil One who ruined Utopia and Paradise.

No. Using terms like "Great Satan" or "The Evil One" only makes you look more ridiculous btw.

ZOG certainly did a number on Serbia with regards to Kosovo. Maybe one day it would suit them to do the same thing to Greece. You never know
They've done it before. They have an established track record.

Just ask the Armenians and Serbs.

Go see a doctor, you need anti-psychosis pills.