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Thread: EU results as they come in.

  1. #61
    Junior Member finironcross's Avatar
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    But it has everything to do with democracy. This perverse, un-European system has stunted our growth in every possible way. It will continue to do so until nothing literally grows any more. The regular Volk gain nothing from democracy, only a select group of undesirables fatten in this condition of the nation. Democracy, specifically unrestricted democracy, is a sign of degeneracy.
    Frei. Sozial. National.
    Heil den Soldaten des Wortes!

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    Perverse un-European. Are you sure you are Finnish ?
    Democracy was invented in Europe- it is thus a purely European system and also the problems that we suffer from now caused by foreigners imported by a small group of men: leftists and big industrialists that were in need of cheap labor and seeking to destabilize society.

    We don't have a democracy. We have a plutocracy that is mixed with some weird socialism. Possibly one of the most perverse systems ever created: bread and games.
    If we would have democracy we could end this present situation.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Ape City Slicker Phlegethon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawspeaker View Post
    Like Belgium.
    And Greece.
    Brother, these Americans are shopkeeper souls stinking to heaven. Dead for all spiritual life, totally dead. The nightingale is right that it does not come to these wretched existences. To me it is of serious, deeper meaning that America has no nightingale at all. To me it seems to be poetic justice. A Niagara voice is necessary to preach to these crooks that there are higher Gods than those coined in the mints."

    (Nikolaus Lenau, 1833)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civis Batavi View Post
    Perverse un-European. Are you sure you are Finnish ?
    Democracy was invented in Europe- it is thus a purely European system and also the problems that we suffer from now caused by foreigners imported by a small group of men: leftists and big industrialists that were in need of cheap labor and seeking to destabilize society.

    We don't have a democracy. We have a plutocracy that is mixed with some weird socialism. Possibly one of the most perverse systems ever created: bread and games.
    If we would have democracy we could end this present situation.
    It's a liberal, constitutional republic, and if not that, one's country is controlled by one (like Africans are) or part of a greater liberal republican structure (European Union).

    • Plutocracy just implies wealth is bad (it's not)
    • Socialism just implies poverty is bad (it's not)
    • Democracy was an elitist institution of Athenians.
    • Liberal republicanism is precisely the system by which merchants can rule amock. That's why economic liberalism and political liberalism cannot be divided, and why Judaic/Radical Reformist and direct mercantile republics preceded them

    Mercantile republics


    Giovan Battista Tiepolo, Neptune offers the wealth of the sea to Venice, 1748–50. This painting is an allegory of the power of the Republic of Venice.


    In Europe new republics appeared in the late Middle Ages when a number of small states embraced republican systems of government. These were generally small, but wealthy, trading states, like the Italian city-states and the Hanseatic League, in which the merchant class had risen to prominence. Knud Haakonssen has noted that, by the Renaissance, Europe was divided with those states controlled by a landed elite being monarchies and those controlled by a commercial elite being republics.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Haakonssen_12-1">[13]</sup>
    Across Europe a wealthy merchant class developed in the important trading cities. Despite their wealth they had little power in the feudal system dominated by the rural land owners, and across Europe began to advocate for their own privileges and powers. The more centralized states, such as France and England, granted limited city charters.
    In the more loosely governed Holy Roman Empire, 51 of the largest towns became free imperial cities. While still under the dominion of the Holy Roman Emperor most power was held locally and many adopted republican forms of government.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Finer_1999._pg._950-955_26-0">[27]</sup> The same rights to imperial immediacy were secured by the major trading cities of Switzerland. The towns and villages of alpine Switzerland had, courtesy of geography, also been largely excluded from central control. Unlike Italy and Germany, much of the rural area was thus not controlled by feudal barons, but by independent farmers who also used communal forms of government. When the Habsburgs tried to reassert control over the region both rural farmers and town merchants joined the rebellion. The Swiss were victorious, and the Swiss Confederacy was proclaimed, and Switzerland has retained a republican form of government to the present.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-27">[28]</sup>
    Italy was the most densely populated area of Europe, and also one with the weakest central government. Many of the towns thus gained considerable independence and adopted commune forms of government. Completely free of feudal control, the Italian city-states expanded, gaining control of the rural hinterland.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-Finer_1999._pg._950-955_26-1">[27]</sup> The two most powerful were the Republic of Venice and its rival the Republic of Genoa. Each were large trading ports, and further expanded by using naval power to control large parts of the Mediterranean. It was in Italy that an ideology advocating for republics first developed. Writers such as Bartholomew of Lucca, Brunetto Latini, Marsilius of Padua, and Leonardo Bruni saw the medieval city-states as heirs to the legacy of Greece and Rome.
    Two Northern Russian cities with powerful merchant class — Novgorod and Pskov — also adopted republican forms of government in 12th and 13th centuries, respectively, which ended when the republics were conquered by Moscow at the end 15th - beginning of 16th century.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-28">[29]</sup>
    The dominant form of government for these early republics was control by a limited council of elite patricians. In those areas that held elections, property qualifications or guild membership limited both who could vote and who could run. In many states no direct elections were held and council members were hereditary or appointed by the existing council. This left the great majority of the population without political power, and riots and revolts by the lower classes were common. The late Middle Ages saw more than 200 such risings in the towns of the Holy Roman Empire.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-29">[30]</sup> Similar revolts occurred in Italy, notably the Ciompi Revolt in Florence.
    [edit] Protestant republics

    While the classical writers had been the primary ideological source for the republics of Italy, in Northern Europe, the Protestant Reformation would be used as justification for establishing new republics.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-30">[31]</sup> Most important was Calvinist theology, which developed in the Swiss Confederacy, one of the largest and most powerful of the medieval republics. John Calvin did not call for the abolition of monarchy, but he advanced the doctrine that the faithful had the right to overthrow irreligious monarchs.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-31">[32]</sup> Calvinism also espoused a fierce egalitarianism and an opposition to hierarchy. Advocacy for republics appeared in the writings of the Huguenots during the French Wars of Religion.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-32">[33]</sup>
    Calvinism played an important role in the republican revolts in England and the Netherlands. Like the city-states of Italy and the Hanseatic League, both were important trading centres, with a large merchant class prospering from the trade with the New World. Large parts of the population of both areas also embraced Calvinism. The Dutch Revolt, beginning in 1568, saw the Dutch Republic reject the rule of Habsburg Spain in a conflict that lasted until 1648.
    In 1641 the English Civil War began. Spearheaded by the Puritans and funded by the merchants of London, the revolt was a success, and King Charles I was executed. In England James Harrington, Algernon Sydney, and John Milton became some of the first writers to argue for rejecting monarchy and embracing a republican form of government. The English Commonwealth was short lived, and the monarchy soon restored. The Dutch Republic continued in name until 1795, but by the mid-18th century the stadholder had become a de facto monarch. Calvinists were also some of the earliest settlers of the British and Dutch colonies of North America.
    [edit] Liberal republics


    An allegory of the Republic in Paris


    Along with these initial republican revolts, early modern Europe also saw a great increase in monarchial power. The era of absolute monarchy replaced the limited and decentralized monarchies that had existed in most of the Middle Ages. It also saw a reaction against the total control of the monarch as a series of writers created the ideology known as liberalism.
    Most of these Enlightenment thinkers were far more interested in ideas of constitutional monarchy than in republics. The Cromwell regime had discredited republicanism, and most thinkers felt that republics ended in either anarchy or tyranny.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-33">[34]</sup> Thus philosophers like Voltaire opposed absolutism while at the same time being strongly pro-monarchy.

    Septinsular Republic flag from the early 1800s



    A revolutionary Republican hand-written bill from the Stockholm riots during the Revolutions of 1848, reading: "Dethrone Oscar he is not fit to be a king rather the Republic! The Reform! down with the Royal house, long live Aftonbladet! death to the king / Republic Republic the people. Brunkeberg this evening". The writer's identity is unknown.


    Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Montesquieu praised republics, and looked on the city-states of Greece as a model. However, both also felt that a nation-state like France, with 20 million people, would be impossible to govern as a republic. Rousseau described his ideal political structure of small self-governing communes. Montesquieu felt that a city-state should ideally be a republic, but maintained that a limited monarchy was better suited to a large nation.
    The American Revolution began as a rejection only of the authority of British parliament over the colonies, not of the monarchy. The failure of the British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the infringement of their rights to representative government, the monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors, and his support for sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak confederation under the first attempt at a national government with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783. The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to republican ideals that justified the Revolution.
    The French Revolution was also not republican at its outset. Only after the Flight to Varennes removed most of the remaining sympathy for the king was a republic declared and Louis XVI sent to the guillotine. The stunning success of France in the French Revolutionary Wars saw republics spread by force of arms across much of Europe as a series of client republics were set up across the continent. The rise of Napoleon saw the end of the First French Republic, and his eventual defeat allowed the victorious monarchies to put an end to many of the oldest republics on the continent, including Venice, Genoa, and the Dutch.
    Outside of Europe another group of republics was created as the Napoleonic Wars allowed the states of Latin America to gain their independence. Liberal ideology had only a limited impact on these new republics. The main impetus was the local European descended Creole population in conflict with the Peninsulares governors sent from overseas. The majority of the population in most of Latin America was of either African or Amerindian decent, and the Creole elite had little interest in giving these groups power and broad-based popular sovereignty. Simón Bolívar was both the main instigator of the revolts and one of its most important theorists was sympathetic to liberal ideals, but felt that Latin America lacked the social cohesion for such a system to function and advocated autocracy as necessary.
    In Mexico this autocracy briefly took the form of a monarchy in the First Mexican Empire. Due to the Peninsular War, the Portuguese court was relocated to Brazil in 1808. Brazil gained independence as a monarchy on September 7, 1822, and the Empire of Brazil lasted until 1889. In the other states various forms of autocratic republic existed until most were liberalized at the end of the 20th century.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-34">[35]</sup>
    The Second French Republic was created in 1848, and the Third French Republic in 1871. Spain briefly became the First Spanish Republic, but the monarchy was soon restored. By the start of the 20th century France and Switzerland remained the only republics in Europe. Before World War I, the Portuguese Republic, established by the revolution of October 5, 1910, was the first of the 20th century. This would encourage new republics in the aftermath of the war, when several of the largest European empires collapsed. The German Empire, Austro-Hungarian Empire, Russian Empire, and Ottoman Empire were then replaced by republics. New states gained independence during this turmoil, and many of these, such as Ireland, Poland, Finland and Czechoslovakia, chose republican forms of government. In 1931, the Second Spanish Republic (1931–1939) turned into a civil war would be the prelude of World War II.
    Republican ideas were spreading, especially in Asia. The United States began to have considerable influence in East Asia in the later part of the 19th century, with Protestant missionaries playing a central role. The liberal and republican writers of the west also exerted influence. These combined with native Confucian inspired political philosophy that had long argued that the populace had the right to reject unjust government that had lost the Mandate of Heaven.
    Two short lived republics were proclaimed in East Asia, the Republic of Formosa and the First Philippine Republic. China had seen considerable anti-Qing sentiment, and a number of protest movements developed calling for constitutional monarchy. The most important leader of these efforts was Sun Yat-sen, whose Three Principles of the People combined American, European, and Chinese ideas. The Republic of China was proclaimed on January 1, 1912.

  5. #65
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    In contrast, Greece's governing conservatives were headed for defeat in the wake of corruption scandals and with a sharply slowing economy, exit polls showed. The Communists and a new environmental party, meanwhile, were expected to make a strong showing.
    Only in Greece.


  6. #66
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    Now the Far right parties have to learn how to capitalise and not make the same mistakes for the next elections, and not let the conservative party or which ever main party in power to drown them out.

    This all happened in Australia back in 1990's with the rise of "ONE NATION" with Pauline Hanson. She was a fish and Chip shop owner, yet she was honest, but not articulate enough and situational aware enough to dodge the Liberal plant advising her in the Party. Yes, the conservatives will put plants in if they can, so far right parties must be aware, as plants set up events for adverse media set ups.

    In the state of Qld her party for the fist run turn out pulled 20% of the vote and this absolutely shocked mainstream politicians and the media. Old Johnny Howard the crafty bugger invented the preference system of voting, which puts the major parties to an advantage, so when the Federal election came nationally 23% voted for "ONE NATION" yet it was a poor result due to preferences.

    Lesson teach your voters how to vote correctly on the preferential vote etc... I'm pretty sure this system has been adopted in the EU. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In fact I think it's the same in the USA too.

    The conservative party or main stream party in power will adopt policies from the far right to win back votes, as is evident in the French election. So the Far right must make it clear these policies would not of occurred with out them via the media, internet blogging, word of mouth individually and via small business is key. You need dirt teams to dig up the true intentions of the main parties etc... if possible.

    Now this might be hard, but the far right/anti immigrant parties need to form together, it's possible for parties to accommodate a left and right faction in a party with party politics via democracy. Sometimes it's more beneficial to hold a position you do not hold to heart, yet to advance the cause the party discipline must be maintained. The more votes the more influence, and growth the far right will have by being united.

    I see the BNP has learned. Bummer about France.

    Australia has Katters party yet they are not far right, probably more right than right of centre, yet national constitutional patriots/With a mix of old union Labor so it should be interesting in Australia as Queensland has an election next year and the Federal the year after. The cycle repeats itself and hopefully this time the patriots get it right. What I find interesting is 1 in 4 Queenslanders intend voting for Katters party, 20% of the vote in the bag already, with one internet site and little news coverage.

    Things are looking up in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
    the preferential vote etc... I'm pretty sure this system has been adopted in the EU. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In fact I think it's the same in the USA too.
    It's not in place in the US, UK, or Canada. They tried to put it in place in the UK recently, but it got voted down in a referendum.

    Quote Originally Posted by AussieScott View Post
    I see the BNP has learned. Bummer about France.
    Not really. The BNP has completely self-destructed since the last Euro elections in 2009, losing most of their seats either to defections, gerrymandering, or losing elections. The French National Front, on the other hand, appears likely to make it past the first round of Presidential elections like they did in 2002.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula View Post
    It's not in place in the US, UK, or Canada. They tried to put it in place in the UK recently, but it got voted down in a referendum.



    Not really. The BNP has completely self-destructed since the last Euro elections in 2009, losing most of their seats either to defections, gerrymandering, or losing elections. The French National Front, on the other hand, appears likely to make it past the first round of Presidential elections like they did in 2002.
    Cool, the preference vote is such a scam.

    Hope the FNF do extremely well.

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