South Lithuanians and Dacians?

[korkolola]

I've noticed there are a few Lithuanians out here. What do you guys think of Beresnevicius' legend-story-tale about South Lithuanians being descendants of Dacians? (http://www.straipsniai.lt/en//page/11824)


For those who do not know it - one now deceased writer, academic in Lithuania had this strange little story that South Lithuanians (Dzūkai) Dzukians are descendants of Dacian tribes...

[Siegfried]

I have a Lithuanian friend whose father wouldn't look out of place in Romania (though he has a Polish surname). As well, I heard there are some ties between Dacian and Baltic languages. I don't know much on the topic, but it might be so.

[korkolola]

I have a Lithuanian friend whose father wouldn't look out of place in Romania (though he has a Polish surname). As well, I heard there are some ties between Dacian and Baltic languages. I don't know much on the topic, but it might be so.

As far as I know, there hasn't been any serious research on that.

The writer itself emphasises on the southern-like, warlike character of Southern Lithuanians, some similarities between the languages (it says that both Dzukians and Dacians use a lot of 'dz/tz' before 'd's and t's'), Southern Lithuanians being phenotypically darker than the rest of Lithuanians and that's probably it.

Wonder if anyone has heard of this tale/story/legend?

[Dacul]

What is weird is that in lithuanian language are cognates with gothic language.
For example son,sunus in lithuanian.

[Siegfried]

What is weird is that in lithuanian language are cognates with gothic language.
For example son,sunus in lithuanian.

Maybe some later Germanic influences, but that is possible too. However, what I find intresting--sorry to go shortly off-topic--is that the Finnish word for "and" is "ja", the same as in Gothic.

[Dacul]

Well there are few cognates between lithuanian language and old romanian words,as for example doina For example:
doina - some kind popular song - lithuanian daina

Romanian juvete - a fish,or a net used for fish - lithuanian žuvis (ž from lithuanian is pronounced as romanian j).

There is here a list of reconstructed dacian words with lots of them being said to have cognates in lithuanian but I searched some of them with google translate and could not find :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_Dacian_words

But lithuanian folk costumes are not too close to those from Romania,while those from Balkans are almost identical to romanian folk costumes.

[korkolola]

Well there are few cognates between lithuanian language and old romanian words,as for example doina For example:
doina - some kind popular song - lithuanian daina

Romanian juvete - a fish,or a net used for fish - lithuanian žuvis (ž from lithuanian is pronounced as romanian j).

There is here a list of reconstructed dacian words with lots of them being said to have cognates in lithuanian but I searched some of them with google translate and could not find :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_Dacian_words

But lithuanian folk costumes are not too close to those from Romania,while those from Balkans are almost identical to romanian folk costumes.

My translations:

Dacian - Lithuanian
akmon (stone) - akmuo/akmenys (stone)
alm (river) - alma (v. - to purl)
amalas (mistletoe) - amalas (mistletoe)
baidas (frightening) - baidyti (to frighten)
balas (white) - baltas (white)
berza (birch) - beržas (birch)
brukla (cranberry) - bruknė (cranberry)
butas (house, dwelling) - butas (room, flat)
degis (burning, shining) - degti (to burn)
dumas (dark brown) - dūmas (smoke)
galtis (sheet-ice, frost) - šaltis (frost)
geras (good) - geras (good)
gilus (deep) - gilus (deep)
gira/giria (forest) - giria (forest)
griva (river-bed, river-mouth) - griovys (ditch, trench)
kapas (hill, slope) - kapas (grave)
keda (chair) - kėdė (chair)
kerta (clearing in a wood) - kirsti/kerta (to clear the wood)
klevas (maple tree) - klevas (maple tree)
ramus (peaceful) - ramus (peaceful)
rouka (drizzle, fine rain) - rūkas (mist)
sausas (dry) - sausas (dry)
skaudus (painful) - skaudus (painful)
spirus (fast, rapid) - spėrus (fast, rapid)
suras (salty) - sūrus (salty)
tauta (nation) - tauta (nation)
upa (river) - upė (river)
zuv (fish) - žuvis (fish)

[korkolola]

My translations:

Dacian - Lithuanian
akmon (stone) - akmuo/akmenys (stone)
alm (river) - alma (v. - to purl)
amalas (mistletoe) - amalas (mistletoe)
baidas (frightening) - baidyti (to frighten)
balas (white) - baltas (white)
berza (birch) - beržas (birch)
brukla (cranberry) - bruknė (cranberry)
butas (house, dwelling) - butas (room, flat)
degis (burning, shining) - degti (to burn)
dumas (dark brown) - dūmas (smoke)
galtis (sheet-ice, frost) - šaltis (frost)
geras (good) - geras (good)
gilus (deep) - gilus (deep)
gira/giria (forest) - giria (forest)
griva (river-bed, river-mouth) - griovys (ditch, trench)
kapas (hill, slope) - kapas (grave)
keda (chair) - kėdė (chair)
kerta (clearing in a wood) - kirsti/kerta (to clear the wood)
klevas (maple tree) - klevas (maple tree)
ramus (peaceful) - ramus (peaceful)
rouka (drizzle, fine rain) - rūkas (mist)
sausas (dry) - sausas (dry)
skaudus (painful) - skaudus (painful)
spirus (fast, rapid) - spėrus (fast, rapid)
suras (salty) - sūrus (salty)
tauta (nation) - tauta (nation)
upa (river) - upė (river)
zuv (fish) - žuvis (fish)

The similarities are pretty impressive, I must say

[member]

What is weird is that in Lithuanian language are cognates with gothic language.
For example son,sunus in Lithuanian.

This does not indicate any special connection of Gothic and Lithuanian. Look for "son" in Kinship table. Reconstructed proto-Indo-European word for "son" is *suHnú- . This means that Gothic and Lithuanian have simply preserved less changed forms of this word.

Maybe some later Germanic influences, but that is possible too. However, what I find interesting--sorry to go shortly off-topic--is that the Finnish word for "and" is "ja", the same as in Gothic.

Frederik Kortland in one his books that can be partially viewed on Google books mentioned that old Prussian was heavily influenced by Gothic. I haven't encountered such statement reading works by Lithuanians, on the contrary, they say that old Prussian was even more archaic than Lithuanian.

G. Beresnevičius is not a linguist, nor archaeologist. These writings in your link give absolutely no proofs to support "Lithuanians out of Dacians" theory. Sorry, but there is nothing to discuss about.

Well there are few cognates between lithuanian language and old romanian words,as for example doina For example:
doina - some kind popular song - lithuanian daina

Romanian juvete - a fish,or a net used for fish - lithuanian žuvis (ž from lithuanian is pronounced as romanian j).

There is here a list of reconstructed dacian words with lots of them being said to have cognates in lithuanian but I searched some of them with google translate and could not find :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_Dacian_words

But lithuanian folk costumes are not too close to those from Romania,while those from Balkans are almost identical to romanian folk costumes.

From wikipedia:
The extinct Dacian language may have developed from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) in the Carpathian region around 2,500 BC and probably died out by AD 600.


These dates simply mean that it must had had a lot of archaic features. Again it may not necessarily show any special connection to Lithuanian apart from that Indo-European as I showed earlier. Lithuanian is considered as one of the least changed Indo-European languages. It has changed, but less than many other living languages.

From wikipedia again:
A hypothesis that Thracian (or in other scenarios, Daco-Thracian) and the Baltic languages[citation needed] or the Balto-Slavic languages form one branch of Indo-European has also been proposed[citation needed]. Here again due to the scanty evidence, though many close cognates exist between Balto-Slavic and Thracian, there is not enough evidence to demonstrate that Thracian and Balto-Slavic or Thracian and Baltic (excluding Slavic in some scenarios) form one branch of Indo-European.

[korkolola]

I am terribly sorry for annoying exteremly advanced people here with my pseudoscientifc findings, which do not prove 'Lithuanians out of Dacians theory' (didn't know one exists)!