Anglo-Saxon Examples

**Oliver109** · 07-27-2021, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Toddy Frent

I understand your point, and must agree, that the distance in time from the "400sAD invasion" to now is too long to suppose that the "germanicness of the Continental European "Anglo-Saxons" is today preserved in any "pure form." Quite frankly, we must also assume that these Continental European "germanics" were likely mixed with all sorts of "pedestrian traffic across Germany" through previous ages, and were, themselves, probably a hodge-podge. (I wonder if a certain tendency among some "British Islanders" to have "wide/open/large" eyes is a trait native to that Isle, rather exclusively, in reference to the "Iron Age Brits.")

If [B]blonde hair is any indicator of "germanicness,"[B] which we can all agree is so, then we consider such British people with blonde hair "germanic," no? But at this time in my growing understanding of these things, I'm wondering if blondism is indigenous to the British Isles, and has actually been there for thousands and thousands of years.

Coon said that blondism is characteristic of the upper Palaeolithic groups as well as the Nordic groups so quite possibly it has an origin in or around Britain, i mean Britain does include areas that are nearly as blonde as those in Scandinavia and around the Baltic so blondism has clearly been present here for a very long time. Interesting comment about eye shapes, maybe the open and large eyes are more of a Med trait(central and other North Euros tend to have smaller eyes.

**Token** · 07-27-2021, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Toddy Frent

I understand your point, and must agree, that the distance in time from the "400sAD invasion" to now is too long to suppose that the "germanicness of the Continental European "Anglo-Saxons" is today preserved in any "pure form." Quite frankly, we must also assume that these Continental European "germanics" were likely mixed with all sorts of "pedestrian traffic across Germany" through previous ages, and were, themselves, probably a hodge-podge. (I wonder if a certain tendency among some "British Islanders" to have "wide/open/large" eyes is a trait native to that Isle, rather exclusively.

Surely the Anglo-Saxons were a confederation of Germanic tribes, possibly more than a dozen of them, coming from pretty much everywhere from western Norway to northern Germany. This can be easily inferred from the fact that, otherwise, they'd never be able to conquer Britain, which was densely populated and relatively organized at the time. But all Germanic peoples of the Late Antiquity were pretty much indistinguishable physically, and we have hundreds of skulls to confirm it. Genetically the early Anglo-Saxons closely resembled present-day Scandinavians, as did the early Bavarians, Alamanni, among others.

Originally Posted by Toddy Frent

If blonde hair is any indicator of "germanicness," which we can all agree is so, then we consider such British people with blonde hair "germanic," no? But at this time in my growing understanding of these things, I'm wondering if blondism is indigenous to the British Isles, and has been there for thousands and thousands of years.

Blond hair in Europe is largely Indo-European in origin and was widespread in all Indo-European peoples in the northern half of Eurasia, this is already proven by genetics and was widely assumed by anthropologists much before it. It became especially common among early Germanics, perhaps due to selective pressures in Scandinavia, but was far from being exclusive to them.

**Token** · 07-27-2021, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Oliver109

Coon said that blondism is characteristic of the upper Palaeolithic groups as well as the Nordic groups so quite possibly it has an origin in or around Britain, i mean Britain does include areas that are nearly as blonde as those in Scandinavia and around the Baltic so blondism has clearly been present here for a very long time. Interesting comment about eye shapes, maybe the open and large eyes are more of a Med trait(central and other North Euros tend to have smaller eyes.

Not a single Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic European sequenced to date had blond hair. Coon suspected that blondism among modern-day "UP survivors" was due to mixture with Nordics, and he noticed that frequencies of dark hair arose drastically where UP survivors were commonest. For example, 54% of adult Fehmarners, most of whom were Borreby, had dark brown hair, far more than "normal" North Germans:

The hair is brown as a rule among adults; 54 per cent could be classed as dark brown (Fischer #27, 4-7); the rest are divided between golden and ashen shades of light brown and blond. The hair as a rule darkens steadily throughout life; at the onset of senility, 80 per cent of all non-white hair observed was dark brown, as against 7 per cent at the age of 6 years. By contrast, the eyes are very light; less than 3 per cent have brown or dark-mixed shades (Martin #1-6); 78 per cent have eyes which are pure light or almost entirely so (Martin #13-16). This combination of very light eyes with brown hair is typical of Palaeolithic survivors in northern Europe, rather than of Nordics.

After genetics we can affirm confidently that blond hair among "UP survivors" is indeed a Nordic atavism.

**Oliver109** · 07-27-2021, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Token

Not a single Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic European sequenced to date had blond hair. Coon suspected that blondism among modern-day "UP survivors" was due to mixture with Nordics, and he noticed that frequencies of dark hair arose drastically where UP survivors were commonest. For example, 54% of adult Fehmarners, most of whom were Borreby, had dark brown hair, far more than "normal" North Germans:

After genetics we can affirm confidently that blond hair among "UP survivors" is indeed a Nordic atavism.

Interesting, it could be Nordic in origin though it certainly is common in UP regions like Finland and parts of the Netherlands and Germany, it's origin was supposed to date back to around 15 000 BC in Russia though evidence is scanty.

**Token** · 07-27-2021, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Oliver109

Interesting, it could be Nordic in origin though it certainly is common in UP regions like Finland and parts of the Netherlands and Germany, it's origin was supposed to date back to around 15 000 BC in Russia though evidence is scanty.

Since when Netherlands, Finland and Germany are UP regions? It indeed looks like the mutation originated in Upper Paleolithic Siberia (the earliest carrier is the ANE individual Afontova Gora 3 from Siberia). Anyhow, it certainly wasn't in Europe minus the steppes before the Late Neolithic (that is, before the Indo-Europeans expanded).