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Thread: Norse Mythology

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Actually i was refering to the Vanir, which Njord belongs to, the Ćsir gods belong to the original norse pantheon, while Vanir was are remnants of the fusion between norse and pre-norse mythology.. many of these pre-norse mythological practices have been fused with Scandinavian norse mythology, but are lacking in German, British ect versions of the mythology. the pre-norse mythology was centered around fertility and love, while the norse mythology is centered more on war and honor...
    when you say this are you referring to the pre-norse gods of the native norwegians before odin and his people came, thus bringing with them their gods (norse gods)....would that be accurate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    I replied
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86s...80%93Vanir_War

    Heimskringla

    In chapter 4 of Heimskringla, Snorri presents a euhemerized account of the war. Snorri states that Óđinn led a great army from Asia ("Asaland") to attack the people of "Vanaland." However, according to Snorri, the people of Vanaland were well prepared for the invasion; they defended their land so well that victory was up for grabs from both sides, and both sides produced immense damage and ravaged the lands of one another
    We come back to this:

    [YOUTUBE]VZJ1-cIAYMc[/YOUTUBE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86s...80%93Vanir_War

    Heimskringla

    In chapter 4 of Heimskringla, Snorri presents a euhemerized account of the war. Snorri states that Óđinn led a great army from Asia ("Asaland") to attack the people of "Vanaland." However, according to Snorri, the people of Vanaland were well prepared for the invasion; they defended their land so well that victory was up for grabs from both sides, and both sides produced immense damage and ravaged the lands of one another
    There seem to have been a huge cultural change in this period, but i would be careful in taking Snorri as a good source here, he was writing around 1200's after all and this cultural event happened likely back in the iron age, or possibly earlier...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    when you say this are you referring to the pre-norse gods of the native norwegians before odin and his people came, thus bringing with them their gods (norse gods)....would that be accurate?
    Yes, before the arrival of norse gods we had a different mythological reality, but they were not Norwegians at that time, the formation of the Norwegian ethnic group happened in the early Viking era..

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    We come back to this:

    [YOUTUBE]VZJ1-cIAYMc[/YOUTUBE]
    Yeah, i like the idea, but there seem to be many problems with that theory, most scholars reject it...

    The interesting points with regards to this is YDNA Q lines in Scandinavian (which is very common it seems), it might show something very old coming from the east, but it might be too old to fit within the timeframe of a Scandinavian cultural change...
    " I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place."
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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    The interesting points with regards to this is YDNA Q lines in Scandinavian (which is very common it seems), it might show something very old coming from the east, but it might be too old to fit within the timeframe of a Scandinavian cultural change...
    No you don't understand ... the Scandinavian DNA is unaffected. Odin mainly had a religious impact, not genetic.
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    Norse Mythology is very similar to the Old Saxon Mythology practiced in the Isles at the time the Saxons were invading....this is about 500-600 AD. My understanding also is that the Saxons come from Northern Germany and parts of Denmark, and perhaps even Southern Norway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No you don't understand ... the Scandinavian DNA is unaffected. Odin mainly had a religious impact, not genetic.
    Odin is mythological, though, right? How would he have genetic impact unless he actually lived at one time?

    Granted, I have not read this thread yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No you don't understand ... the Scandinavian DNA is unaffected. Odin mainly had a religious impact, not genetic.
    Its highly unlikely that the coming of Norse mythology was a cultural conversion rather then a migration of people, mainly because norse mythology is non-missionary, its a ethnic religion that you are born into as part of your kinship, you cant adopt it and simply become a follower as such, that would have been seen as weird and unnatural...but i dont think YDNA Q is tied to this migration, i think Q is much older in Scandinavian...

    Quote Originally Posted by rhiannon View Post
    Norse Mythology is very similar to the Old Saxon Mythology practiced in the Isles at the time the Saxons were invading....this is about 500-600 AD. My understanding also is that the Saxons come from Northern Germany and parts of Denmark, and perhaps even Southern Norway.
    Norway by this time was entering the Viking age, so its highly unlikely they (Proto-Norwegians) would have been part of such a migration, but Danes i have no doubt were part of it...
    " I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place."
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    Thought i should post this here:

    http://sciencenordic.com/medieval-te...dge-about-odin

    Researchers disagree on the Viking Age conceptions of the god Odin. The source material is ambiguous and difficult to interpret.
    Keywords: History, Literature, Prehistoric times
    SendPDFPrint
    By: Irene Berg Sřrensen
    Odin with his two ravens, Hugin and Munin (Illustration from a 19th century document. The Árni Magnússon Institute in Iceland)

    Today, the general conception of Odin is that of the one-eyed chief of the Norse gods. However, when it comes to the general conception that was prevalent in the Viking age, researchers disagree.

    As there are no contemporary source texts to the pre-Christian religion, researchers need to use medieval sources. This has given rise to a multitude of interpretations.

    The stories and texts that have been handed down from the Middle Ages are marked by the Christian way of thought that was characteristic of the time.

    Because of this, it is exceptionally challenging for the researchers to estimate whether the information regarding the god can in fact be traced back to the Viking Age.

    The different academic backgrounds of the researchers have also influenced the interpretations of the original Odin, as have the various research trends and methodologies that have come into play.

    “Up until now, research history shows us that the method for understanding Odin has been wrong,” says Annette Lassen.

    She holds a PhD in Norse Philology from the Department of Scandinavian Research at the University of Copenhagen and has recently published a book (available in Danish only) on the diverse representations of Odin found in medieval texts.
    Up until now, research history shows us that the method for understanding Odin has been wrong.
    Annette Lassen

    In her analysis, she has reached the conclusion that researchers should weed out the Christian perception of Odin in order to arrive at the original conceptions of the god.

    “Regarding medieval texts as a single, heathen text and extrapolating an image of Odin from this is not a viable option. The texts are very diverse,” she says.
    Christian traditions have coloured the image of Odin

    The medieval texts paint a picture of Odin. In the Icelandic writer Snorri Sturluson’s (ca. 1178-1241) handbook for skalds, the Nordic chief deity is portrayed as a skaldic god.

    Other texts present him as a war god, while others still depict him as a devilish figure.

    Some sources know him as an immortal Father of the Universe, resembling the Christian God, while others see him swallowed by the wolf in Ragnarok, or dying from old age as an immigrant nobleman in Sweden.

    The texts vary, partly because they are drawing upon Christian traditions, and partly because the writers have different intentions with their texts.

    “The description of Odin is tied in with the Christian model of interpretation employed by the writer,” she says.
    Basing a thesis about the pre-Christian Odin on a series of elements from medieval texts about Odin presupposes an interest in whether those elements come from Christian ideas.
    Annette Lassen

    According to Lassen, there are a number of different Christian models of interpretation for dealing with heathenism, dating back to the early Church:

    The writer presents heathen gods as heroic figures who have been mistaken for gods by the heathens.
    The gods are described as demons. Demons could inhabit statues of the heathen gods, which were worshipped by the heathens.
    Heathen worship is described as a misinterpretation of Christianity. In the Biblical story about the tower of Babel, God prevents the builders from speaking to one another by dividing the original language into several different ones. According to the medieval version, the original and ‘true’ language (Hebrew) was forgotten and with it also the original and true God. In this way, the misinterpreted versions of the ‘true’ faith were spread.

    A call for circumspection

    According to Lassen, once the Christian way of thought has been identified, not much information is left about Odin in the old sources.

    She says that while archaeologists and historians of religion may not necessarily agree with this, there is not likely to be anyone disagreeing that it is necessary to analyse the Christian additions, before starting to look into the original Viking Age conception of Odin.

    “My aim with the book was to focus on the Medieval Odin figure, clarify the extent to which Christianity has shaped our ideas of heathenism and demonstrate that this calls for circumspection, but also to come up with a method that other researchers can use,” she says.

    “Basing a thesis about the pre-Christian Odin on a series of elements from medieval texts about Odin presupposes an interest in whether those elements come from Christian ideas.

    “That doesn’t mean that the myths about Odin are lost. The stories exist, and they are as entertaining and interesting as ever. It just turns out that they are a fascinating product of the meeting between heathenism and Christianity,” she says.

    “Mythology is probably always like that. Something can always be added to it, and it never exists in any pure form.”
    " I once tried thinking for an entire day, but I found it less valuable than one moment of study. I once tried standing up on my toes to see far out in the distance, but I found that I could see much farther by climbing to a high place."
    Xunzi

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