Reform or withdrawal from the EU?

[Albion]

In Britain there is currently a bit of a debate within the ruling coalition about whether Britain should withdraw from the EU. Some argue it should and that this would enable it to seek new trading partners around the world whereas others claim reform is all that is needed.
Generally speaking most people in Britain whether Euroskeptic or not think that EU powers go beyond what is necessary and interfere too much with the governing of the country.

To me the EU is a good idea but in its current form it is very badly implemented. I like the idea of European co-operation but the EU just goes too far.


So the question is this - personally would you like to see the EU reformed, your country withdraw from it or for it to remain as it is at the moment?


Pros and cons of the EU:

Pros:

• Large, single market (largest in the world in fact)
• Standards set across the continent for many things
• Support for farming and industries
• Allows countries to speak with one voice thus giving greater influence (should in theory, but not always in practice).
• Makes it harder for external countries to manipulate members (although internal countries often still do that).
• Trade agreements with most countries in the world that matter.

Cons:

• Undemocratic
• Too much interference
• Often overrules national parliaments or fines countries that don't do as they're told
• Too many rules and regulations that infringe upon sovereignty
• The CAP - nice idea, but in practice it needs reform. At the moment it benefits French and Southern European farmers much more than Northern European states.
• Common Fisheries Policy - throwing excess fish overboard, dead into the sea? What muppet thought up that one? Also it has openned national waters to international fleets and led to seas such as the North Sea being depleted
• The Euro - bad idea from the start. In my opinion it should be gradually phased out and replaced back with national or regional currencies.
• Schengen agreement - originally not part of the EU. It was a bad idea though, especially since much of Eastern Europe has porous borders and should be replaced by border posts or smaller, regional movement areas (such as Common Travel Area)

Ultimately myself I want EU to be greatly reformed (and Euro phased out) but I doubt this will ever happen. To leave the EU would probably be a mistake, but it cannot be allowed to continue as it is at the moment.

So what do you think, what are your opinions?

[The Lawspeaker]

I think that the EU cannot be reformed... and thus the Netherlands should withdraw. We can remain in the Common Market if we would join the EFTA first.

[Graham]

UKIP are correct about it being a token statement from the Tory party. Cameron has already promised a referndum.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.


We don't need the EU & scaremongering. You can't make an artificial country that pulls in all sorts of directions.

[arcticwolf]

Withdrawal, no doubt.

[Moonbird]

Schengen agreement - originally not part of the EU. It was a bad idea though, especially since much of Eastern Europe has porous borders and should be replaced by border posts or smaller, regional movement areas (such as Common Travel Area)

It was actually the Schengen agreement that made me turn against the idea of EU. But even if it was to be removed I now support a withdrawal.

[Tel Errant]

1)Reform the EU and get out of Schengen and the Eurozone. I don't see the beneficit of a total withdrawal from the common market.

2)Reactivate the Françafrique networks and invest massively in Africa, giving up volontarilly such a rich land to the Chineses is stupid.

[ficuscarica]

I want a GIP version of the UKIP. Basically I share the position of Nigel Farage.

[Pretan]

I voted UKIP at last election, my motive is clear.

[Partiasn]

Pros:

• Large, single market (largest in the world in fact)
• Standards set across the continent for many things
• Support for farming and industries
• Allows countries to speak with one voice thus giving greater influence (should in theory, but not always in practice).
• Makes it harder for external countries to manipulate members (although internal countries often still do that).
• Trade agreements with most countries in the world that matter.

These are all really cons if you examine them closely.

[*]Large, single market (largest in the world in fact)

You already have that with cross nation Internet economy, It does not need a governing body to regulate it. And because of that there is no barrier for entry.

[*]Standards set across the continent for many things

Standards set by governing bodies, generally are both politically motivated and stall innovation. The EU is not needed for standards.

[*]Support for farming and industries

Also bad.
The only industries that will receive support is large centralized corporations, who don't give a dam about local industry or small business.
In fact they will do everything in their power to stamp it out. Which in the current energy decline world will hurt you further on down the road.

[*]Allows countries to speak with one voice thus giving greater influence (should in theory, but not always in practice).


Maybe but it will be a compromised influence where NO ONE gets what they came to the table for.
[*]Makes it harder for external countries to manipulate members (although internal countries often still do that).


That one you answered yourself.
"(although internal countries often still do that)."

[*]Trade agreements with most countries in the world that matter.


Trade Agreements with countries, boils down to trade agreements with governments, and those governments don't contribute a dam thing to the input or production. Wast, more wast, and fraud on top of that.

Trade Agreements should be made by local municipalities or companies in your own area, that way >>YOU<< will get the benefit, not some governing body or corporate CEO.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't remember life without the EU since i was too young when we joined, so i can't say if we were better before. But i definitely can say we were better before the Euro.

However, it's known that the EU killed our fishing and agriculture in exchange for "funds".