Ethnogenesis of Bavarians

[Corvus]

The Bavarii were a tribe which emerged late in Teutonic tribal times. The full name originally was the germanic *baio-warioz. This name has been handed down as Baiwaren, Baioaren, Bioras, latinised Bavarii, Baioarii. It is assumed that this is an endonym. The first part "baio" refers to the name of the Celtic Boier tribe, which also resolved into the regional name Bohemia (germanic latinised boio-hemum = home of the Boier tribe). The name of the Bavarians therefore is said to mean "men from Bohemia".

The origin of Bavarians is for historians a much-discussed, probably not solvable question. Some historians claim they are pure bred Germans as the descendants of the Marcomanns who fought the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius on the Danube line, other historians see in them a mixed multitude ethnicity composed of Germanic, mainly of Ostgothic, but also of non-Germanic, Sarmatian and even Hun factions, which came from the Hungarian plains into today's Bohemia, where they settled there for a long time and were called Bavarians from its neighbors, which means "men from Bohemia"

[shshmuk]

I don't know anything about the true origin of the Bavarians, but I thought the following old German myth could be at least interesting, whether it has some truth in it, or is completely mythic.

It says that Bavarians came from Armenia.

This is the German text:


XX.
Dü sich Beirelant wider in virmaz, Die merin Reginsburch her se bisaz, Da vanter inne helm unti brunigen, Manigin helit güdin, Die dere burg huhdin. Wiliche Knechti dir werin, Deist in heidnischin büchin meri. Da lisit man Noricus ensis, Daz diudit ein suert Beierisch, Wanti si woldin wizzen Daz ingemimi baz nibizzin, Die man dikke durch den helm slug; Demo liute was ie diz ellen gut. Dere geslehte dare quam wilin ere Von Armenie der herin, Da Noe uz der arkin ging, Dur diz olizui von der tuvin intfieng: Iri ceichin noch du archa havit Vf den bergin Ararat. Man sagit daz dar in halvin noch sin Die dir Diutischin sprecchin, Ingegin India vili verro. Peiere vurin ie ciwige gerno: Den sigin den Cesar an un gewan Mit bluote muster in geltan.

And here is the English translation:

When Bavaria dared to rise against him,
he at once besieged the famous Regensburg.
Here he found
helmet and byrnie,
and many bold heroes
who were defending their city.
The heathen books tell
what kind of warriors were there:
there we read "Noricus ensis",
which means, "a Bavarian sword",
for they believed
that no other blade had a better bite,
often slicing through a helmet.
This was always a brave people.
Their tribe came long ago
from the magnificent Armenia,
where Noah came out of the ark
when he received the olive twig from the dove.
The remains of the ark
are still to be found in the highlands of Ararat.
It is said that in those parts
there are still those who speak German,
far towards India.
The Bavarians always loved to go to war.
Caesar had to pay in blood
for his victory over them.

From here-http://www.dunphy.de/ac/al-en.htm

[Corvus]

Intresting theory or let`s better say hypothesis, but this must be a very archaic form of German, because I don`t understand anything and my Bavarian is fluent.

[shshmuk]

Intresting theory or let`s better say hypothesis, but this must be a very archaic form of German, because I don`t understand anything and my Bavarian is fluent.

Well, that's in an old German language, so it is natural that you would not be able to understand. That's why I put the English translation too by Dr Raymond Graeme Dunphy.

I don't understand modern German either, unfortunately. I was searching in the Google Books about that poem and its relation to Armenia and here is what I found:

http://books.google.am/books?id=M7ZFAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PT65&dq=Opitz%E2%80%99s+Anno+Armenia&hl=hy&sa=X&ei =5oH0T9LtFpD64QSnyOTbBg&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage& q=Opitz%E2%80%99s%20Anno%20Armenia&f=false

It's on page 559-560.

I don't understand what it says, but it mentions that poem's name and Armenia. So maybe you could tell us if it has some important or interesting information or not.

[Alexander Akopian]

The same myth is followed in the first chronicle of Anglo-Saxon ethnology, that Brits came from Armenia. There's no mystery there, giving a broad consideration for the Armenian highlands to be the cradle of the civilization, hardly a mystery. All the same, in Anglo-Saxon chronicles written in an old English dialect or language that requires a linguist to translate it. Consequently, a recent DNA studies showed an R1b HG present in Armenians' DNA at the rate of 30%. A type that's predominantly present in Western Europeans. 30% is significantly high to account for in people that are not from Europe. I'd suggest you to look up the DNA studies, if you really are interested.