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Thread: Serbian terror in Macedonia

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    The goal post just keeps on getting moved for Macedonians. The standard is now the mid 1800’s, instead of 1945 onwards.
    You're conflating viewpoints here. I've been arguing against the people who have been saying Tito invented the Macedonian identity for years. If you go back to any of my old posts on the topic, you won't see me arguing in favor of the Tito theory. I've even mentioned Georgi Pulevski talking about a distinct Macedonian language and ethnicity here many times (although he also considered himself Bulgarian and the Macedonian language to be descended from Old Bulgarian so was pretty confused).

    I came up with the time frame of the mid 1800s because I noticed all of your posts regarding ethnic Macedonian identity in pre-Tito times don't go back earlier than the mid 1800s.

    And if someone were to "change goalposts" from 1945 to the mid 1800s, then I wouldn't call it "changing goalposts", but instead "changing your position based on new information". Changing your view on something after receiving new information shows the person is intellectually honest and not just arguing for the sake of it. I haven't done that here, but I don't think someone should be judged negatively were they to do such a thing.

    The Macedonian identity emerged out of the dying days of the Ottoman Empire, organically. Against all pressure to Serbianise, Hellenise and Bulgarise the population. Yes, I accept communism solidified it and not created it. I believe the Bulgarianess of Macedonians is a lie. No I don’t believe my ancestors identified as ethnic Bulgarians.
    So if you believe that Macedonian identity emerged in the dying days of the Ottoman Empire, what did the people of modern day North Macedonia identify as shortly before the emergence of the Macedonian identity if not as Bulgarian?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    You're conflating viewpoints here. I've been arguing against the people who have been saying Tito invented the Macedonian identity for years. If you go back to any of my old posts on the topic, you won't see me arguing in favor of the Tito theory. I've even mentioned Georgi Pulevski talking about a distinct Macedonian language and ethnicity here many times (although he also considered himself Bulgarian and the Macedonian language to be descended from Old Bulgarian so was pretty confused).

    I came up with the time frame of the mid 1800s because I noticed all of your posts regarding ethnic Macedonian identity in pre-Tito times don't go back earlier than the mid 1800s.

    And if someone were to "change goalposts" from 1945 to the mid 1800s, then I wouldn't call it "changing goalposts", but instead "changing your position based on new information". Changing your view on something after receiving new information shows the person is intellectually honest and not just arguing for the sake of it. I haven't done that here, but I don't think someone should be judged negatively were they to do such a thing.

    I wasn't aware of your views regarding the Macedonian identity.

    In regards to me only posting sources indicating a Macedonian nation separate from the others, and all of them being from middle of the 1800's (one was from the 1830's by the way), i'd like ask you, if this is the case, that Macedonians were NOT considering themselves as Serbs, Greeks or Bulgarians, but as simply Macedonians in the mid 1800's, then what brought this Macedonian identity on? Whats the theory this time explaining the reasoning why Macedonians were considering themselves as such in the mid 1800's? Could it be that these Macedonians of the 1800's were just identifying with how their ancestors identified before them? Or is there some other conspiracy similar to the Tito theory?

    Furthermore, how far must i go back until Macedonians are accepted as their own ethnicity? What will satisfy people?


    So if you believe that Macedonian identity emerged in the dying days of the Ottoman Empire, what did the people of modern day North Macedonia identify as shortly before the emergence of the Macedonian identity if not as Bulgarian?
    How about as Christians? Turks were not a fan of nationalism in the early days of the Ottoman empire. People were divided based on religion, or social class. Nationalism started to emerge once the empire started to crumble.

  3. #123
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    Mingle. What about 1770?

    The "voyages and travels through the Russian empire" page 265:

    My place by the sea hospital was now filled up by a physician, a Macedonian, who had studied at Padua: He told me that in the year 1739, the last year of the Turkish War, his countrymen, the Macedonian Christians, had assembled a body of between thirty and forty thousand men, with a design to free themselves from Turkish slavery...
    Interestingly, the account of this Macedonian man claims that "year 1739" and that it was "the last year of the turkish war". Why it's interesting is that it coincides with and uprising by the Serbs in 1737-1739:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serb_u...737%E2%80%9339

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    Bump

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    Macedonian section on this forum is trollish. Its either "Serbs blablabla" or "Bulgarians blablabla".

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Macedonian section on this forum is trollish. Its either "Serbs blablabla" or "Bulgarians blablabla".
    Serbinized Macedonian keep quiet.
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    Serbian terror?! Тhis thread is hilarious
    🔴🔵⚪

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyP View Post
    Serbinized Macedonian keep quiet.
    Why are you being an asshole? I meant nothing bad.

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    Serbian terror in North Macedonia 1918-1941.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serbian Eagle View Post
    RESTORATION OF SKOPLJE AND MACEDONIA 1918-1941.

    During the so-called "Serbian occupation" of Macedonia, the building of the Vardar Banovina (today's Sobranje) was built, Officers' Home, the most beautiful railway station in Europe, the National Bank, Post office, green market, city park, ZOO, population census was conducted, done geodetic survey with the first aerial recordings, a water supply system was built from the Raša spring near the village of Raduša, hydroelectric power plant Matka on the river Treski, sewage system, The buildings of the men's grammar school Kiril i Metodij, the women's grammar school Kraljica Marija were built, the University was built, the collapsed library of Isa-beg was restored, the children's resort on the hill Vodno, 280km street with about 20 intersections, extended city hospital, built war shelters, raised overpasses, bridges, tennis courts and 2 football fields. The number of schools on the level of the whole of Macedonia has tripled, and more than 1000 km of new roads have been built ... Over a billion dinars were invested at that time, which was a huge amount of money. It's just that a person wants such an "occupation".





    King Alexander National Theater, Skoplje.




    New bridge, Skoplje.




    Skoplje Military Hospital.




    An art school in Skoplje which was built during the reign of King Alexander Karadjordjevic.




    Construction of water supply and sewerage.





    Skoplje Thermal Power Plant.




    Pharmacy Vardar 1926.




    Gymnasium, Ohrid.




    Men's Gymnasium.




    School "Tsar Dusan"




    Skoplje Barrack.




    New school 1929.




    New School in South Vinica.




    Men's Gymnasium, Mosque, Officer's Home, Park "Isljahane", bridge Tsar Dusan.




    Removing the Turkish board Uskub and setting the name Skoplje.




    Kumanovo Falconry was built in 1931. Today's appearance.




    The first electrification in Kumanovo (1926). The picture shows the owner of the power plant Zivko Stoilkovic.




    National Library.




    Serbian Army in Skoplje.




    Tropical Institute.




    King Peter Street with Hotel Moscow.




    New Falconry in Skoplje.




    Railway station, the most beautiful in Europe, Skoplje.




    Cathedral, Skoplje.




    Sanatorium, Vardar.




    New barrack of the 21st regiment of the Serbian army.




    Bunjakovac.




    Tobacco Institute Prilep.

    🔴🔵⚪

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