What is your favorite genetic admixture calculator?

[Jackson]

Eurogenes K13 is quite good, but EUtest version 1 is probably the most accurate, from what i can tell.

[Armatus]

EUtest V1 imho, since it's not an option i voted for MDLP, which is also relatively accurate.

[tamilgangster]

Harappa DNA, It actually has a seperate Onge component

[Wulf Talented]

What's the best calculator to take for a European - the most accurate?

[Jackson]

What's the best calculator to take for a European - the most accurate?

I'd recommend Eurogenes, but for two reasons in particular:
1) The Oracle doesn't suffer from the 'calculator effect' as most others. This basically means that people who weren't in the original run get pulled towards the middle of the populations, that caused a lot of confusion for a lot of people a little while back. In this case only the components are reliable, but you have to compare them with other people of known ancestry who were also not in the run - but in that respect it can be good. For example i really like some of the MDLP calculators and Dodecad ones, but they are only useful in this regard, not with the oracle.
2) At the higher Ks it breaks up some of the more closer-knit components like in the NW, East, SW of Europe for example.

The Eurogenes EUtest is probably the most accurate for all members of my family, but it's worth trying them all to see what they say (although bear in mind the calculator effect for other projects, which seems to be real from my experiences).

That said, it's worth reading the blogs of Dienekes, MDLP, Eurogenes and Harappa. Dienekes does a broader anthropology blog which relays really useful information and his take on them, and so does Eurogenes blog, but both have genetic projects (Dienekes' is called Dodecad).

[Wulf Talented]

I'd recommend Eurogenes, but for two reasons in particular:
1) The Oracle doesn't suffer from the 'calculator effect' as most others. This basically means that people who weren't in the original run get pulled towards the middle of the populations, that caused a lot of confusion for a lot of people a little while back. In this case only the components are reliable, but you have to compare them with other people of known ancestry who were also not in the run - but in that respect it can be good. For example i really like some of the MDLP calculators and Dodecad ones, but they are only useful in this regard, not with the oracle.
2) At the higher Ks it breaks up some of the more closer-knit components like in the NW, East, SW of Europe for example.

The Eurogenes EUtest is probably the most accurate for all members of my family, but it's worth trying them all to see what they say (although bear in mind the calculator effect for other projects, which seems to be real from my experiences).

That said, it's worth reading the blogs of Dienekes, MDLP, Eurogenes and Harappa. Dienekes does a broader anthropology blog which relays really useful information and his take on them, and so does Eurogenes blog, but both have genetic projects (Dienekes' is called Dodecad).

Thank you very much for the response Sir,

I have just re-taken the Jtest and EUtest. I took them once before and posted the results on here somewhere, but with a bit more understanding about population averages and etc, It seems like I might suffer the calculator affect... I come out slightly higher as North Central European for the J and EUTESTS than what my ( belonging to ) population average shows...

EUTEST ( original ) - NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 34.20%

Population average for English - 29.67%

EUTEST v2 K15 NORTH-SEA 44.37%

Population Average for Southeast English - 35.52

JTEST NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 34.01%

Population average for English - 29.44

[Jackson]

Thank you very much for the response Sir,

I have just re-taken the Jtest and EUtest. I took them once before and posted the results on here somewhere, but with a bit more understanding about population averages and etc, It seems like I might suffer the calculator affect... I come out slightly higher as North Central European for the J and EUTESTS than what my ( belonging to ) population average shows...

EUTEST ( original ) - NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 34.20%

Population average for English - 29.67%

EUTEST v2 K15 NORTH-SEA 44.37%

Population Average for Southeast English - 35.52

JTEST NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 34.01%

Population average for English - 29.44

I don't think you suffer the calculator effect for EUtest/Jtest because it doesn't occur on those tests, but i noticed before you are very high in this one component. Sometimes that happens i guess. It's probably going to make you look more Scandinavian (rather than Polish) than you'd expect but it's something youll have to bear in mind. Just think about it as - There's a lot of variation around the population averages, you just happen to be a small percentile that get significantly above average for this, although it should balance out overall in that you get lower than average for some other components i guess. For example both my grandparents have about average for that component, my father has about 2% above average, and the phased data file has about 3% above average (in the EUtest for example). It's interesting that the North Sea component in EUtest V2 K15 has a peak in Orkney, so it may just be saying that you have something that makes you look genetically more like the average Orcadian than most other English people do. Graham (a Scottish member here) also has a very high amount of that component on EUtest V2 K15, and i think his ancestry is from mainland Scotland, northern England and Shetland for the most part.

What you'd expect from the calculator effect i think is that you would be pulled towards the centre, so a lot of people from the British Isles come out something like 70% British 30% Hungarian, even if they are typical in other tests not affected.

[Wulf Talented]

I don't think you suffer the calculator effect for EUtest/Jtest because it doesn't occur on those tests, but i noticed before you are very high in this one component. Sometimes that happens i guess. It's probably going to make you look more Scandinavian (rather than Polish) than you'd expect but it's something youll have to bear in mind. Just think about it as - There's a lot of variation around the population averages, you just happen to be a small percentile that get significantly above average for this, although it should balance out overall in that you get lower than average for some other components i guess. For example both my grandparents have about average for that component, my father has about 2% above average, and the phased data file has about 3% above average (in the EUtest for example). It's interesting that the North Sea component in EUtest V2 K15 has a peak in Orkney, so it may just be saying that you have something that makes you look genetically more like the average Orcadian than most other English people do. Graham (a Scottish member here) also has a very high amount of that component on EUtest V2 K15, and i think his ancestry is from mainland Scotland, northern England and Shetland for the most part.

What you'd expect from the calculator effect i think is that you would be pulled towards the centre, so a lot of people from the British Isles come out something like 70% British 30% Hungarian, even if they are typical in other tests not affected.

It's very confusing, I understand that my Polish ancestry will pull me closer to continental Germanic populations, my Oracle results always have me Germanic predominantly. I once asked Davidski about it, my population distances were really distant in terms of genetic similarity - my first population being #1 Orcadian @ 8.708, so it's due to the Polish ancestry muffling it all up.

It's true that where I am significantly higher in North Euro results, my Atlantic/med results drop below the average.

An example using the EU vs K15 Test again -

Population average ( South east English ) - 29.86

Atlantic 20.62%

So does that mean the 34% North Euro is not legitimate... or it is but only due to Polish ancestry pulling it towards Poland?

It's been really difficult to distinguish my genetic make up so far due to this Polish ancestor. I'm not sure what the Admix calculators really do, are they suppose to show your genetic make up from specific areas in the world, be it distant or ancient ( I know that the bloggers try to get it through to the people that the populations shouldn't be taken seriously )? I'm trying my best to determine The Polish genetic make up, but 23andMe labelled him nonspecific Euro at 10% ( I assume it's him, rest is North Euro and like >0.1 North African, 0.1% unassgined, ), and FTDNA Family finder just isn't that good IMO. These calculators haven't helped, haha!

[Jackson]

It's very confusing, I understand that my Polish ancestry will pull me closer to continental Germanic populations, my Oracle results always have me Germanic predominantly. I once asked Davidski about it, my population distances were really distant in terms of genetic similarity - my first population being #1 Orcadian @ 8.708, so it's due to the Polish ancestry muffling it all up.

It's true that where I am significantly higher in North Euro results, my Atlantic/med results drop below the average.

An example using the EU vs K15 Test again -

Population average ( South east English ) - 29.86

Atlantic 20.62%

So does that mean the 34% North Euro is not legitimate... or it is but only due to Polish ancestry pulling it towards Poland?

It's been really difficult to distinguish my genetic make up so far due to this Polish ancestor. I'm not sure what the Admix calculators really do, are they suppose to show your genetic make up from specific areas in the world, be it distant or ancient ( I know that the bloggers try to get it through to the people that the populations shouldn't be taken seriously )? I'm trying my best to determine The Polish genetic make up, but 23andMe labelled him nonspecific Euro at 10% ( I assume it's him, rest is North Euro and like >0.1 North African, 0.1% unassgined, ), and FTDNA Family finder just isn't that good IMO. These calculators haven't helped, haha!

I think they are probably not helpful because your results don't seem what you'd expect for your ancestry. In theory your Baltic and Eastern Euro should be higher than average, your Atlantic and Mediterranean lower than average, and your North Sea/Central Euro about the same as average or lower. I'd have thought it's possible that your English ancestry is unusually northern/northwestern, and therefore an eastern pull is harder to see - but in reality the calculator still picks up an eastern pull, even if it just uses 'Orcadian' as the base population a lot of the time. But yeah it could be that both your English and Polish ancestors weren't typical of the average, so the result (British Isles and a pull to the east) can still be seen, but it's expressed in a different way perhaps. Either that or you just happened to get unusual results, would be useful if you had other family members go through it to see if it's easier to see in them other than yourself, because of course two people with the same ancestry (unless they are genetically identical twins i assume) can come out a bit differently on these calculators despite having the same ancestry, two different results of mixing the same things i guess - maybe you just got an unusual result rather than a more expected one?

[Jackson]

I think they are probably not helpful because your results don't seem what you'd expect for your ancestry. In theory your Baltic and Eastern Euro should be higher than average, your Atlantic and Mediterranean lower than average, and your North Sea/Central Euro about the same as average or lower. I'd have thought it's possible that your English ancestry is unusually northern/northwestern, and therefore an eastern pull is harder to see - but in reality the calculator still picks up an eastern pull, even if it just uses 'Orcadian' as the base population a lot of the time. But yeah it could be that both your English and Polish ancestors weren't typical of the average, so the result (British Isles and a pull to the east) can still be seen, but it's expressed in a different way perhaps. Either that or you just happened to get unusual results, would be useful if you had other family members go through it to see if it's easier to see in them other than yourself, because of course two people with the same ancestry (unless they are genetically identical twins i assume) can come out a bit differently on these calculators despite having the same ancestry, two different results of mixing the same things i guess - maybe you just got an unusual result rather than a more expected one?

It basically seems to pick up that you are atypical, and overall have a pull to the east, although because the distribution of your components is not what you'd expect of a mix of someone close to the English population average and the Polish population average, it has trouble identifying these two populations as the actual mixture.