Messiah Richard Dawkins launches children's summer camp for atheists

**Loki** · 08-31-2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

None of which would have ever happened if that heretic Luther had been burnt at the stake. The lives and souls that could have been spared if it wasn't for heresy are a great many. One man and so much death.

Luther was a hero.

**Lutiferre** · 08-31-2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Loki

Luther was a hero.

For an atheist, yes, because Luther led to more secularisation and the division of Christians into thousands of denominations and hence, further weakening of the unity and orthodoxy of Christianity, and an endless stream of heresies.

But what I was talking about was really the series of wars he started, which could have been avoided hadn't he been a schismatic in whose interest it was to divide rather than unite.

His objections toward some abuses in the Church at the time were probably correct. Note that not all of his 95 theses were rejected by the Papal Bull, and the abuses were condemned and resolved. But his theological infusions, his revision of the bible (he tried to exclude several levers from the biblical canon, including Hebrews and James), his personal pride, had nothing to do with that and were totally unwarranted.

**Puddle of Mudd** · 08-31-2009, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

No. I am insinuating the total lack of moral order, and therefore moral integrity, in a worldview and world without God.

OK, so what I'm hearing is atheists lack the proper morals compared with a theistic belief system which conveys 'moral integrity'.

However, I ask you this, which theistic belief (since belief systems range into the hundreds, even thousands) conveys the necessary 'moral integrity' needed to live an non-sinful lifestyle, and what makes that belief the correct one?

**Lutiferre** · 08-31-2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Declara

However, I ask you this, which theistic belief (since belief systems range into the hundreds, even thousands) conveys the necessary 'moral integrity' needed to live an non-sinful lifestyle, and what makes that belief the correct one?

Your whole approach over-interprets my statement and makes it artificial. It was only my viewpoint of atheism, as a Christian. I never said "As a theistic belief-system-believer" which could mean a variety of things. My point was that I see every moment of my existence as a part of my subjective experience of truth, and that this is what excludes atheism as a possible worldview in regard, for instance, to moral integrity.

**~~Frigga~~** · 08-31-2009, 01:56 AM

All of this talk about religious wars, and without religion, there would be no wars I think is a little bit of wishful thinking. Humanity has always had, and always will have an Us And Them mentality. I think that Trey Parker and Matt Stone did a good job with that thought of there being only atheism in the future with their two South Park episodes Go God Go, and Go God Go XII in season ten. Even if everyone was atheist, we would still bicker about little nuances about who's idealogy is better. It is our human nature.