Ethnogenesis of Austrians

[Corvus]

Within the context of the polycentric ethnogenesis of the German speaking regions and the overarching political framework of the German Roman Empire, the Austrian lands–first Upper and Lower Austria, then including Styria and Carinthia and later Salzburg (the province of
Burgenland only became part of Austria in 1921)–had been characterized since the early middle ages by several specific features. In ethnic-territorial terms, the Austrian lands originated from an expansion of German settlement to the South and East, formed a border
region first in competition with Slavic and Hungarian reigns/kingdoms and later also with the Ottoman Empire and the Islamic civilization. In ethnic composition, the Austrian lands combined eastward migrating German people, Alemanni and Bavarians (developed during the
fith and sixth century out of various Germanic tribes and the local Roman/romanized population), and westward migrating Slavic and Hungarian people. In this sense, the Austrians did not form one ethnic group like the Saxons or Swabians, but an ethnic conglomerate held together by a common political estate order from the middle ages to the modern period.(Bruckmüller 1996: 155-199, Grothusen 1974, Kann 1993: 17-30, Zöllner
1990: 39-110)

[Corvus]

Salzburg is according to my observation the province with the most Nordic
looking people. Maybe this is due to the fact that it was indipendent for a long period and became part of the Habsburg Empire very late.

In the Congress of Vienna in 1815, it was definitively returned to Austria, but without Rupertigau and Berchtesgaden, which passed to Bavaria. Salzburg was integrated into the Salzach province and Salzburgerland was ruled from Linz. In 1850, Salzburg's status was once more restored as the capital of the Duchy of Salzburg, a crownland of the Austrian Empire. The city became part of Austria-Hungary in 1866 as the capital of a crownland into the Austrian Empire.

Another theory is that it the place where the Hallstatt Nordics originated.
Also the mentality of the people is a bit different compared to other Austrians.
The main reason can be disputed.

[curiousman]

Hallo Corvus, maybe you can find interesting this post of Dienekes: http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2012/07/...e-in-east.html

[Corvus]

Hallo Corvus, maybe you can find interesting this post of Dienekes: http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2012/07/...e-in-east.html

Grazie, useful information, it shows hat even in East Tyrol (an Alpine province South of Salzburg and West of Carinthia) there is a lot of Slavic and Romance DNA, much more than many Austrians would acknowledge

[noricum]

Salzburg is according to my observation the province with the most Nordic looking people.

I can only confirm that, at least in the North (Flachgau).

Also the mentality of the people is a bit different compared to other Austrians.

To my impression differences are generally more visible between east and west Austrians. Or more accurately between mountaious areas (Vorarlberg, Tyrol, East Tyrol, southern Salzburg, Upper Styria and Upper Carinthia) and the flatlands, which is also visible f.e. in their food buying patterns-amongst others.

[Corvus]

[QUOTE=noricum;1069817]I can only confirm that, at least in the North (Flachgau).

I am glad you noticed it too. What is in your eyes the main reason for it?

[decordoba]

The ethnogenesis of Austrian started earlier


About 6.000 years ago - the Neolithics and the Mesolithics lived in the area of the present Austria.
Their DNA still exist in the Austrian population.

We cannot be sure about their phenotype, but I guess the Neolithics had a Balkan phenotype and any MED phenotype, not far from Dinarid. The Mesolithics had an old European phenotype, not far from Alpin.

About 5.000 years ago - the Indoeuropeans – R1b1a2 men – cattle herders from the Steppe – invaded the southern Central Europe. They came along the river Danube. After this invasion, they had been the Upper Class and the tribal leaders. The native population got servants or had been killed - if they did not „confirm“ to the Indoeuropean leadership.

It is possible, that the eastern Indoeuropean group – R1a1 = Corded - invaded the southern German and northern Austrian area at the same time.

The ethnogenesis of the Celts was finished 3.000 years ago. And the population had almost the same combination than 2.000 years before, but the Y-DNA changed extremely to R1b1a2

2.000 years ago - the Romans invaded Noricum to prevent the Roman Empire from Germanic invasion. At the end of the Roman Empire - most Romans leaved the area of Noricum. A small number of them stayed there north of the Alps up to the river Danube. The Roman admixture of the Austrians is less than 10 % of the Austrian population.

1.500 years ago - several Germanic tribes invaded the Roman Empire. Most of them came from the coast of the Baltic Sea, the river Elbe region and the Black Sea region. After that - they settled in Italy and north of the Alps up to the river Danube. Germanics: Goths, Rugians, Heruler, Gepides, (maybe Huns) and others.

These Germanic tribes had been the new Upper Class in the region of Austria, but the majority of people had been the Celts (I mean the Celtic Upper Class including their servants).

About 1.400 years ago - the Avars and the Slavs invaded the eastern part of Austria, and the Slavs settled in this area together with the former population. Now – the population of this area has almost ~30 % Slavic admixture.

About 1.300 years ago - the Francs dominated the Bavarians. A unknown number of Franc settlers came to the region of Austria.

Since 1.300 years - the population of Austria does not change much (exclusive the last 150 years).

[oszkar07]

bump

[TheForeigner]

No such thing as Austrian ethnogenesis. Austrians are Germans.

[decordoba]

No such thing as Austrian ethnogenesis. Austrians are Germans.

Not true - there is a difference between Austrians and Germans. Austria has a high amount of persons with Slavic ancestry. The Germans north of Frankfurt are quiet different to Austrians in mentality and in their vibe.