Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: Bulgarian toponyms in Serbia.

  1. #1
    I'm back, angrier than ever
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Online
    11-19-2023 @ 06:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian with a whiff of Greek
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    5,052
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,414
    Given: 571

    0 Not allowed!

    Default Bulgarian toponyms in Serbia.

    Srem, Belgrade, Kragujevac, Morava, Tumba, Nish, Pirot


    But these traces are found not only in Romania and Hungary. They are also preserved in the region that was the earliest Bulgar conquest on the south side of the Danube, located in today eastern Serbia.The first permanently controlled Bulgar land in the Balkans, recognized by Rome, is South-Danubian Panonia, with the major cities of Sirmium, Singindunum and Bononia [6]. The arrival of Bulgars in this area was marked by a whole series of important changes. The city Sirmium got its new name Srem and the rivers Timakus and Margus were renamed in Timok and Morava. The river flowing to the west of Srem (today Serbianized as Mitrovica) got the name Kolubara. Old Singindunum became widely known as Alba Bulgarica ('Bulgarian town'). The Romano-Byzantine castle of Singindunum had white stone ramparts, and the Bulgars named it Belgrad, meaning 'White Castle' which contrastingly corresponds with the present-day Hungarian town Csongrád = cherni grad = 'black castle' [3]. Near Belgrade, a new fortress was built with the Bulgar name Tetel. All these changes occurred in the fifth-sixth century, when South-Danubian Pannonia was settled by the Bulgars. Even today most of the rivers flowing through eastern Serbia have the names given to them in that ancient Bulgar times.

    The changes that Bulgars made in the names of those rivers and towns have their own interesting history. Why, for example, the river, called Margus in Roman times was renamed by Bulgars to Morava? The reason is that in the eastern regions, from which Bulgars arrived, the word murava occurred which means 'a quiet, peaceful river'. Like many other peoples, Bulgars liked to name things in simple and understandable words for them. And that is why they translated in their language most foreign names that they found in the Balkans. They did so not only with the names of rivers, but with the names of towns. In the oldest Bulgar centers of the Balkans – the land between Vidin and Srem – many ancient town names sound even today. Kragujevac received its name from the famous Bulgar hunting falcons – kragui – raised by specially designated people – kraguyari. Even today in Eastern Caucasus in areas once inhabited by Bulgars, the word kraguy means 'falcon'. The village Kutugertsi near Timok received its name from the name of the former Bulgar healers called kutugeri. Later this name became one of the names of the Bulgarian Bogomils. Tumba peak in Timok region also has an old Bulgar name. In one of the inscriptions of Omurtag, the tall mound halfway between the Danube and Pliska was called with the same word Tumba, and today in the old Bulgar territories around Pamir, mounts bear the names Tube and Tyube. Ancient Bulgar language echoes from the names of many peaks and mountains in this region – Vrəshka Chuka, Kom, Svərlig, Kərlig, and Viskyar. Echo of these names sounds today also in the Pamir Mountains, where viskyar in some languages means 'a hill' and chuka means 'peak', and in the Bulgar lands in the Caucasus, where Svərlig literally means 'Sparrow mountain' (from svərlo, 'sparrow').

    As a souvenir left by the ancient Bulgars in Srem and Belgrade regions, an old plaque was found with Bulgar symbols, on which the typical symbol of old Bulgars – IYI – was engraved twice. The village, near which this plaque was discovered also bears a very old name. It is called Shudikovo in honor of some already forgotten Bulgar named Shudik. A similar name – shudik – is found today in the Caucasus among the neighbours of the erstwhile Kubrat Bulgars.



    The earliest bridgehead established by the Bulgars in their first migrations in the Balkans is covered even today with typical Bulgar traces. Those are particularly abundant in Timok Region that have been severed from Bulgaria at a relatively late time – during the nineteenth century, after the liberation of Serbia. But in Belgrade and Srem there are still many traces as those were Bulgarian lands for nearly eight centuries – from the late fifth century to the mid-fourteenth century. In old times Belgrade has been best known as the place where Cyril and Methodius' students first set foot on Bulgarian soil. There, according to the hagiography of St. Kliment Ohridski, they were welcomed by the Bulgarian governor – bori-tarkhan, who conveyed them to Boris in Preslav [4], p. 297. Both the title of the governor, and the text of the hagiography leave no doubt that in the ninth century Belgrade was a big Bulgar fortress. At the time of Samuel, Belgrade was still a Bulgarian town and is mentioned among the conquered Bulgarian settlements by Basil II in the chrysobull of 1015 [4], p. 145. The Crusaders who came in 1096 in Belgrade and Nish mentioned those as Bulgarian cities, managed by Bulgarian dukes and principals:

    Hic itaque, sine offensione et aliquo adverso incursi, usque ad Belegravum, civitatem Bulgarorum, profectus est, transiens Malevillam, ubi terminatur fines regni Ungarorum. ... Walterus licentiam emendi vitae necessaria requisivit a principe Bulgarorum et magistratu civitatis. ...Walterus, relictis circumquanque sociis, fugitivus silvas Bulgarorum, per dies octo, exsuperans, ad civitatem ditissimam, quae vicatur Nizh, in medio Bulgarorum regno, secessit: ubi duci et principi terrae reperto ... dicto duce Nichita nomine, principe Bulgarorum et praeside civitatis Belegravae ...
    "So, passing through Mallevilla [Zemun] where the limits of the Hungarian Kingdom end, he went, without making an offence or enemy attack, as far as the Bulgarian town Belegrava [Belgrade]. ... Walter asked from the Bulgarian governor and the city governance a right to buy vital necessities. ... Walter abandoned his comrades everywhere and, running, passed the Bulgarian forest and retired in the very rich town called Nizh [Nish] in the middle of the Bulgarian Kingdom: there he found the duke and the governor of the land whom he told ... the above duke named Nikita, prince of Bulgaria and governor of Belegrava [Belgrade] ... " [9].
    The last evidence of Belgrade as a Bulgarian town is from 1259 when it was conquered by the Magyars (PC, II, 76-77). Two centuries later, when the Magyars were pushed by the Turks beyond the Danube, Belgrade fell in the hands of the Serbs, who at that time were vassals of the Ottoman Empire. In strict observance of their vassality, Serbs settled permanently in the conquered with Turkish help town and over time it became their main stronghold.

    If we go down from Srem, Belgrade and Vidin (South-Danubian Panonia) towards Ohrid, the road passes through the ancient fortress Naisos, renamed Nish by Bulgars at the same time when Margus became Morava and Timakus became Timok. This name of the town given by the Bulgars remarkably coincides with the name of one of the most famous towns near Pamir – the capital of the old Partian Empire called Nissan. Close to Nish is Pirot – another town named by Bulgars in their specific Bulgar language. The name of Pirot is similar to the eastern word pirg (stronghold). The Bulgar character of the population of Nish, Pirot, and the Timok River Basin to the north-east has been preserved at least until the beginning of the 20th century, albeit largely Serbianized, as evidenced by the British traveller Mary Edith Durham.[2] She wrote that in Pirot she saw a distinctly Bulgar cast of countenance and build. Before its annexation to Serbia in 1878 Pirot was an undoubtedly Bulgar district. The population along the frontier and around Zaitchar was Bulgar and Roumanian, the flat-faced, heavily built Bulgar with high cheekbones and lank black hair predominating. This is corroborated by local customs. Carpet making was widespread and the carpets were truly Bulgarian in origin. Carpets were not made in any other part of Serbia. And the neighbouring peasants played the bagpipe, the typical Bulgar instrument. Old books of travel call Nish Bulgar. Bulgars extend not only into the south of Serbia, but in the east spreads over the Timok.[2]

  2. #2
    Veteran Member dralos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Online
    01-28-2015 @ 05:43 PM
    Location
    area 51
    Meta-Ethnicity
    dardanian
    Ethnicity
    albanian
    Ancestry
    trolls who mixed with illyrian gods and and then came to mix with bardhyll an illyrian king and so o
    Country
    Albania
    Region
    Dardania
    Taxonomy
    pred atlantoid with borreby and dinarid influences
    Politics
    no more pussies
    Religion
    chickz want me
    Age
    99
    Gender
    Posts
    15,365
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,387
    Given: 2,630

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    we all know that majority of easternserbs have bulgarian origine,but being the scum they are,they forced those people to become serbs,sad story but nothing unusual for the serbs

  3. #3
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    10-13-2023 @ 10:59 AM
    Location
    Somewhere
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Serbian
    Country
    Australia
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Mediterrean
    Religion
    Orthodox Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    3,018
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 735
    Given: 846

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Armani, l've read the works on-line from Lyudmil Antonov, could be half true. When he writes about Bulgars, its grossly over-exaggerated, Bulgars never settled, it was even told by Hugo Grothe that Bulgarian raids into unconquered Slav territories, up until the 10th century, were conducted by mauraders to loot, they had not left ANY ETHNIC TRACES ON THESE TERRITORIES. The only real permanent settlement was conducted by Asparuch in 681AD in modern North-East Bulgaria

    What is really ridiculous is Bulgars IN PASSING named these towns for the Moravljani and Timochani or even for the Branicevichi, these slavic tribes hated the alien tribe of Bulgars and alined themselves with the Serbs because they WERE RELATED. What we have above from you Armani is SPECULATION, its not set in stone. I can speculate that most of western bulgarian toponyms is from Serbian origin, but what is set in stone and REALLY TRUE that you cannot deny is the Srb/Serb toponyms inside Bulgaria, practically to central Bulgaria, here is a list off the top of my head:

    SRBENICA (Central Bulgaria)
    Samokov (Formerly known as Srpsko Samokov before WW2)
    Srubsko Selo (Srpsko Selo)
    Serblyane
    Serbniza
    Serbenica

    DO WE FIND BUL toponyms inside Macedonia or Serbia? We may find some individuals possessing Bugarin as a surname, but once again its spelt and pronounced in serbian style......other failure Armani LMAO

  4. #4
    I'm back, angrier than ever
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Online
    11-19-2023 @ 06:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian with a whiff of Greek
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    5,052
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,414
    Given: 571

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Armani, l've read the works on-line from Lyudmil Antonov, could be half true. When he writes about Bulgars, its grossly over-exaggerated, Bulgars never settled, it was even told by Hugo Grothe that Bulgarian raids into unconquered Slav territories, up until the 10th century, were conducted by mauraders to loot, they had not left ANY ETHNIC TRACES ON THESE TERRITORIES. The only real permanent settlement was conducted by Asparuch in 681AD in modern North-East Bulgaria
    North-East Bulgaria, huh? There were Bulgars even in Transylvania.

    And if they were no settled Bulgars in modern day's Serbia then why we established your capital Belgrade? Serbs in that time were somewhere in Bosnia and Dalmatia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    What is really ridiculous is Bulgars IN PASSING named these towns for the Moravljani and Timochani or even for the Branicevichi, these slavic tribes hated the alien tribe of Bulgars and alined themselves with the Serbs because they WERE RELATED. What we have above from you Armani is SPECULATION, its not set in stone. I can speculate that most of western bulgarian toponyms is from Serbian origin, but what is set in stone and REALLY TRUE that you cannot deny is the Srb/Serb toponyms inside Bulgaria, practically to central Bulgaria, here is a list off the top of my head:

    SRBENICA (Central Bulgaria)
    Samokov (Formerly known as Srpsko Samokov before WW2)
    Srubsko Selo (Srpsko Selo)
    Serblyane
    Serbniza
    Serbenica
    What toponyms of Serbian origin in Bulgaria? Never heard for these cities before, except for Samokov which only a freak can claim it to be Serbian city. Can you explain from where your "toponyms" come from? Probably from the Serbian empire which ruled Western Bulgaria only for 24 years? Like one other member said, that's nothing in world history. The Bulgarian empire was empire for centuries and ruled whole Serbia so much time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    DO WE FIND BUL toponyms inside Macedonia or Serbia? We may find some individuals possessing Bugarin as a surname, but once again its spelt and pronounced in serbian style......other failure Armani LMAO


    That's another prove that Serbs were invaders in Macedonia. Only a dumb person will call himelf like his ethnicity. Obviously the native population of Macedonia (Bulgarians) called the barbarian Serbs with nicknames like "Surbina" and here you have the surname "Surbinovski". BTW Serbia was conquered by Bulgaria twice.

    PS Learn Serbian.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    10-13-2023 @ 10:59 AM
    Location
    Somewhere
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Serbian
    Country
    Australia
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Mediterrean
    Religion
    Orthodox Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    3,018
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 735
    Given: 846

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    "North-East Bulgaria, huh? There were Bulgars even in Transylvania."

    Asparuch settled near Varna, which is situated in North-East Bulgaria (modern borders).

    "And if they were no settled Bulgars in modern day's Serbia then why we established your capital Belgrade? Serbs in that time were somewhere in Bosnia and Dalmatia."

    Ah no, De Administrando Imperio has told me Serbs actually reached the land to be named Beligrad in the early 7th century (80 years before Asparuch settling in NE BuLgarska). Actually, l may give you only this one, Boris ruled over slavs there for about, what, 1 or 2 years LMAO

    "What toponyms of Serbian origin in Bulgaria? Never heard for these cities before, except for Samokov which only a freak can claim it to be Serbian city. Can you explain from where your "toponyms" come from? Probably from the Serbian empire which ruled Western Bulgaria only for 24 years? Like one other member said, that's nothing in world history. The Bulgarian empire was empire for centuries and ruled whole Serbia so much time."

    Ofcourse you don't know, your 18 years old, you need another 18 years. Explain to me the serbian toponym in central bulgaria called Srbenica?

    "That's another prove that Serbs were invaders in Macedonia. Only a dumb person will call himelf like his ethnicity. Obviously the native population of Macedonia (Bulgarians) called the barbarian Serbs with nicknames like "Surbina" and here you have the surname "Surbinovski". BTW Serbia was conquered by Bulgaria twice."

    Aha, some made up theories right? Why were the Macedonian Slavs naming their sons (FIRST NAMES) not surnames as SRBIN and not BuLgarin?

    "PS Learn Serbian."

    Learn history Armani and not from your family and some psedo bulgarian propaganda sites on the internet!

  6. #6
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    10-13-2023 @ 10:59 AM
    Location
    Somewhere
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Serbian
    Country
    Australia
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Mediterrean
    Religion
    Orthodox Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    3,018
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 735
    Given: 846

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Your a failure Armani LMAO

  7. #7
    I'm back, angrier than ever
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Online
    11-19-2023 @ 06:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian with a whiff of Greek
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    5,052
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,414
    Given: 571

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Asparuch settled near Varna, which is situated in North-East Bulgaria (modern borders).
    Actually whole Northern Bulgaria, till Ukraine.



    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Ah no, De Administrando Imperio has told me Serbs actually reached the land to be named Beligrad in the early 7th century (80 years before Asparuch settling in NE BuLgarska). Actually, l may give you only this one, Boris ruled over slavs there for about, what, 1 or 2 years LMAO
    The first Serbian state called Rashka was established in 768 (almost 1 century after the Bulgarian one) and it was far from Belgrad.

    Bulgarians already reached Belgrade in that time and restored it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Ofcourse you don't know, your 18 years old, you need another 18 years. Explain to me the serbian toponym in central bulgaria called Srbenica?
    There are no such toponysm, only in your wet dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Aha, some made up theories right? Why were the Macedonian Slavs naming their sons (FIRST NAMES) not surnames as SRBIN and not BuLgarin?
    I'll say you again, only a dumb person will call his child to his ethnicity. It's ridiculous. But i would expect everything from a Serb.

    I don't deny that they were Serbs in Macedonia but they were not more than 15 000 in the 19 century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Learn history Armani and not from your family and some psedo bulgarian propaganda sites on the internet!
    You have nothing to do with Serbia, just some distant relatives, accept it.

    I'm more Serbian than you.

  8. #8
    I'm back, angrier than ever
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Online
    11-19-2023 @ 06:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian with a whiff of Greek
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Gender
    Posts
    5,052
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,414
    Given: 571

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Your a failure Armani LMAO
    There is no such pathetic person like you. You protect foreign for you country.

    If you are such a nationalist why don't you learn Serbian and live in Serbia?

    You're just wannabe Serbian.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member ioan assen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    01-21-2021 @ 11:22 AM
    Location
    Serdica, Triadica, Sredec, Sofia
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Bulgarian
    Ancestry
    Northeastern Bulgarian, Southeastern Thracian Bulgarian
    Country
    Bulgaria
    Taxonomy
    European, Mediteranean
    Politics
    Democratic, Proeuropean
    Religion
    Orthodox Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    1,366
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 569
    Given: 300

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Armani, ignore Novi. He is useless. I ve posted counless sourcess disproving his lies and propaganda yet he copypastes it non stop. He is Torlak in deep conflict with himself for betraying his real roots. By posting this rediculous propaganda he tries to justify his family choice but you must be a complete idiot to believe his propaganda.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Online
    06-06-2023 @ 12:26 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Alien
    Ethnicity
    Little grey
    Country
    Vatican
    Gender
    Posts
    1,635
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 147
    Given: 50

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Srem from latin Syrmia, Belgrade from beo - white and grad - city, Kragujevac from a Serbian word for a bird Kraguj, Morava from a Celtic word, Tumba don`t have an idea what that is, Nish from latin Naisus, Pirot from a Greek word for tower Pirgos

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-10-2022, 01:29 AM
  2. Slavic toponyms in Albania
    By Boiorix in forum History & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-22-2012, 02:03 AM
  3. Serb toponyms in Europe
    By Guapo in forum Srbija
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-25-2012, 08:32 PM
  4. WW2 and Serbia
    By Wildland in forum History
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-06-2009, 08:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •