Boris Sarafov on top of the ministry of foreign affairs

[Bugarash 1893]

И контроверзниот Сарафов на врвот на МНР



На венецот на новиот објект на Министерството за надворешни работи наредени се 37 скулптури, на познати светски дипломати, но, меѓу нив има и не толку звучни имиња и големи анонимуси за македонскиот граѓанин. Дел од овековечените на врвот на објектот е и Борис Сарафов, контроверзна личност од македонската историја, која актуелнава власт се обидува да го рехабилитира, исто како и Тодор Александров, без официјална научна ревизија, потврдена пред сè од МАНУ.
Сарафов е поставен во внатрешноста на терасата на МНР, веднаш до Кемал Ататурк и не е видлив однадвор. Веројатно неговата „скриена“ локалција не предизвика идентичен инцидент како скулптурата со Симеон Радев, познат бугарски публицист, историчар и дипломат и член и на бугарската делегација при потпишувањето на Букурешкиот договор во 1913 година со којшто се дели Македонија.
Сарафов, според официјалната историја бил бугарскиот офицер и претседател на легалната организација на македонската дијаспора во Софија (Врховен Македонски комитет), кој, во почетокот на 20 век материјално и духовно ги помагал Организацијата и Гемиџиите и воедно бил еден од водачите на Илинденското востание. Сарафов е контроверзна личност и поради неговите релации со други влади, меѓу кои и со бугарската, а според официјалните историски податоци тој им ја отвора вратата и на Србите во Македонија по Илинденското востание. По смртта на Даме Груев прави непринципиелна коалиција со Иван Гарванов и во таа внатрешна борба за превласт загинува од Тодор Паница по нарачка на Јане Сандански.

Badly made statue



Boris Sarafov-left on the horse helping the bulgarian population runing from the burnt by the greeks bulgarian villages in Aegean Macedonia.

[Crn Volk]

I agree, badly made statue. Some words from Sarafov;

It is a grievous error to suppose that we seek to acquire Macedonia on behalf of Bulgaria. We Macedonians consider ourselves to be an entirely separate national element, and we are not in the least disposed to allow our country to be seized by Bulgaria, Servia, or Greece. We will, in fact, oppose any such incorporation with all our might. Macedonia must belong to the Macedonians. The misunderstanding has arisen through our residing in Bulgaria. The circumstance of our having prepared a Macedonian insurrection while living in this country led to the conclusion that we were aiming at a union between the two Slav provinces. That is, however, perfectly absurd. If we were to be expelled from Bulgaria and were to settle in Switzerland nobody would suppose that we intended to liberate Macedonia on behalf of Switzerland; we merely go where we find the most favourable opportunities for our revolutionary work……..

But, wherever we may be, we wish to keep our movement distinct from the national aspirations of the independent Balkan States. We shall energetically resist any attempt on the part of those States to secure Macedonia for themselves………….

We will have nothing to do either with official Bulgaria or with official Servia, nor yet with official Austria-Hungary. We are revolutionists, and count only upon one-half of the peoples of Europe. In order to put and end to the misunderstandings among the Slav States of the Balkans concerning the movement in which we are engaged, two of our friends will shortly go to Servia and then proceed further in order to deliver lectures. Macedonia must no longer be a source of dissension among the Balkan countries. Emancipation must form the basis upon which the federation of those countries can be founded…………….

(The Times, London, April 12, 1901.)

[Bugarash 1893]

Why dont you read Sarafov's memoirs hmm?
See what he says about himself and about everything else.
Check out who were the people he hang out with.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro...gi/spombs.html

Olso why dont you read the memoirs of others who speak about Sarafov and about his ideas?

Read the memoirs of Germanos Karvangelis!
Read the memoirs of another macedonian revolutionary-Hristo Silyanov.

Are you challenging me to a text battle?
You better not,I can give you a million texts where he is presented as a macedono-bulgarian and where the term 'macedonian' is clearly a synonym of BULGARIAN!

Just for your sake,here is a text from the same ''source'' you're using THE TIMES



As I said,there is always a tiny spot on which you can hold on to in order to prove that a macedonia ethnicity existed,or in this case that some of the great VMRO leaders thought they were ethnic macedonians.

There olso was a hidden agenda that they all presented in front the Great Powers.
Macedonia to become indipendent and to belong to the people that populate her.
If they said they were fighting for another state of the Bulgarians on the balkans or uniting with Bulgaria and dues creating a Greater Bulgaria there wouldnt be any support for the goal.

[Crn Volk]

Why dont you read Sarafov's memoirs hmm?
See what he says about himself and about everything else.
Check out who were the people he hang out with.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro...gi/spombs.html

Olso why dont you read the memoirs of others who speak about Sarafov and about his ideas?

Read the memoirs of Germanos Karvangelis!
Read the memoirs of another macedonian revolutionary-Hristo Silyanov.

Are you challenging me to a text battle?
You better not,I can give you a million texts where he is presented as a macedono-bulgarian and where the term 'macedonian' is clearly a synonym of BULGARIAN!

Just for your sake,here is a text from the same ''source'' you're using THE TIMES



As I said,there is always a tiny spot on which you can hold on to in order to prove that a macedonia ethnicity existed,or in this case that some of the great VMRO leaders thought they were ethnic macedonians.

There olso was a hidden agenda that they all presented in front the Great Powers.
Macedonia to become indipendent and to belong to the people that populate her.
If they said they were fighting for another state of the Bulgarians on the balkans or uniting with Bulgaria and dues creating a Greater Bulgaria there wouldnt be any support for the goal.

And there was no support for an independent Macedonia either, yet here we are....

[Bugarash 1893]

And there was no support for an independent Macedonia either, yet here we are....

You are here again thanks to Bulgaria.

If it wasnt for the probulgarian winds within Macedona's political class you would now be part of Serbia.
The top officials then we afraid to even ask you a straigh referendum question about indipendence,they were sure that the people would have voted to stay in Yugoslavia!

Not to mention that if it wasnt for Bulgaria,Serbia would have probably owned you.

Not to mention that if it wasnt for the bulgarian tanks given to you as a gift back in 2001,the albanians would have owned you as well.

Not to mention Bulgaria rejected the Milosevic proposed conference to put an end to you once and for all by dividing you between Serbia,Greece and Bulgaria-that conference olso showed the fear Serbia had,the serbs knew that a war in Macedonia wouldnt be the same as a war in Bosnia or Croatia.

Clashes in Macedonia between the serboslavian JNA and the local population would meant bulgarian entrence.

That is the main reason Macedonia went through without war.
You think Mislosevic didint know that Macedonia was the easiest pray from them all?

He knew it,but he olso knew that even the smallest incident in Macedonia and...

Or maybe when Greece imposed an embargo...Albania in anarchy,Serbia under sanctions.
Bulgaria opened the border so you wouldnt starve!

So...thank Bulgaria and stop barking.

[Crn Volk]

You are here again thanks to Bulgaria.

If it wasnt for the probulgarian winds within Macedona's political class you would now be part of Serbia.
The top officials then we afraid to even ask you a straigh referendum question about indipendence,they were sure that the people would have voted to stay in Yugoslavia!

Not to mention that if it wasnt for Bulgaria,Serbia would have probably owned you.

Not to mention that if it wasnt for the bulgarian tanks given to you as a gift back in 2001,the albanians would have owned you as well.

Not to mention Bulgaria rejected the Milosevic proposed conference to put an end to you once and for all by dividing you between Serbia,Greece and Bulgaria-that conference olso showed the fear Serbia had,the serbs knew that a war in Macedonia wouldnt be the same as a war in Bosnia or Croatia.

Clashes in Macedonia between the serboslavian JNA and the local population would meant bulgarian entrence.

That is the main reason Macedonia went through without war.
You think Mislosevic didint know that Macedonia was the easiest pray from them all?

He knew it,but he olso knew that even the smallest incident in Macedonia and...

Or maybe when Greece imposed an embargo...Albania in anarchy,Serbia under sanctions.
Bulgaria opened the border so you wouldnt starve!

So...thank Bulgaria and stop barking.

You really are a conspiracy theorist aren't you. Well the facts speak otherwise. Macedonian nationalists formed VMRO-DPMNE, who in turn lead the campaign for an independent Macedonia. Those same nationalists have now re-built Skopje with those statues, which you are so fond of. If it wasn't for VMRO-DPMNE, then yes, we would have remained in rump Yugoslavia along with Montenegro.

[Bugarash 1893]

You really are a conspiracy theorist aren't you. Well the facts speak otherwise. Macedonian nationalists formed VMRO-DPMNE, who in turn lead the campaign for an independent Macedonia. Those same nationalists have now re-built Skopje with those statues, which you are so fond of. If it wasn't for VMRO-DPMNE, then yes, we would have remained in rump Yugoslavia along with Montenegro.

VMRO-DPMNE back then was made out of probulgarian structures.
Most of those structures are still there.

like:

Antonio Milososki-former foreign minister of todays cabinet
Silvana Boneva

The statues are being built by a frustrated person like Gruevski who indirectly is working for our interest.

He will lead you into your doom.
Ethnic,economic...

[Crn Volk]

VMRO-DPMNE back then was made out of probulgarian structures.
Most of those structures are still there.

like:

Antonio Milososki-former foreign minister of todays cabinet
Silvana Boneva

The statues are being built by a frustrated person like Gruevski who indirectly is working for our interest.

He will lead you into your doom.
Ethnic,economic...

VMRO-DPMNE was founded by people like Dragan Bogdanovski, Boris Zmejkovski, Vlado Golubovski....there were some with Bulgarophile tendencies in the 1990s, but they have since been removed or marginalised. I notice Georgievski is now in coalition with Crvenkovski...what a turn-around hey

[Bugarash 1893]

VMRO-DPMNE was founded by people like Dragan Bogdanovski, Boris Zmejkovski, Vlado Golubovski....there were some with Bulgarophile tendencies in the 1990s, but they have since been removed or marginalised. I notice Georgievski is now in coalition with Crvenkovski...what a turn-around hey

VMRO=Ljubko Gergievski

The founder of VMRO-DPMNE.
The first leader of VMRO-DPMNE.
The man who lead VMRO-DPMNE to its first election victory.

Again,bulgarian.

Sadly,Georgievski wants to kick Gruevski out of power.
He supports the existince of a Macedonian state and the newly created macedonian nation but he doesnt denie it is made on a bulgarian base.

I on the other hand.
I support Gruevski

[Crn Volk]

VMRO=Ljubko Gergievski

The founder of VMRO-DPMNE.
The first leader of VMRO-DPMNE.
The man who lead VMRO-DPMNE to its first election victory.

Again,bulgarian.

Sadly,Georgievski wants to kick Gruevski out of power.
He supports the existince of a Macedonian state and the newly created macedonian nation but he doesnt denie it is made on a bulgarian base.

I on the other hand.
I support Gruevski

Georgievski was installed as leader, when he was a young Macedonian nationalist. Bulgarian money however changed that. In any case, he is well hated in Macedonia and will never be in a position of power once more.

Here's some more on VMRO-DPMNE;

http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=0...DED907043F98BA